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Think Like A Horse -
Natural Horsemanship
Rick Gore Horsemanship
Horse's love it when their owner's
understand them.
Horsemanship is about the horse teaching you
about yourself.
Questions and Answers:
The following topics are frequently asked. I have just put the answers so it may be a little unclear, but you should see and hear a common theme. By reading the answers, if you understand horses, you should almost be able to fill in the questions and understand what is being said and why. Click on the question topic that most likely will answer your specific question:
Bucking:
You are causing this by being to easy on the horse. You have to understand horses better to understand this. Read my web site about herd behavior, you and this horse is a herd of two and you are either higher than her or lower than her. You have let her think you are lower by letting her get away with this. As she gets older, she will get bigger and stronger, then you will be in real trouble. Stop this behavior NOW or you will set this horse up to be abused later for being mean. If this horse turns her butt to you, have a rope or something and whack her butt HARD, this will scare her and she will run off, then she will learn that she cannot do that and will be a better horse. If she pins her ears, then back her away and make her move away from you, that will tell her you are higher and she has to show you respect.
Lots more going here than what you are seeing,you keep describing this horse as if he has the problems, he does not, it is you. All horses run, buck and do the same things that you are describing, learn ONE thing, a horse is a horse and that is all they know how to be. You say he is running off on you bucking, I say you going to fast and not giving enough direction to stop this from happening, "direction is better than correction". The horse does not want to run since it is not sure what will happen and its gets scared and nervous. BTW, your rope halter is tied wrong, this is "attention to detail", read my rope halter page on my site. Don’t try and get this horse to run, only walk in comfortable areas an ride in very familiar areas, just slow walks, nice easy stops, turns and back ups. YOU are teaching this horse to buck by letting it buck and causing it to buck since you are trying to go too fast. "the slow way is the fast way" don't rush it or the horse will get nervous and scared. Lots of round pen work, NOT just chasing the horse, send the horse out, trot, canter and walks then have it come to you and follow you, you want more time on following you then you pushing it and making it run. lunge the horse in the round pen with a rope and rope halter on, it the horse bucks, (this is when you want to try and make it buck) so you can take the head away and make it STOP bucking so the horse leans that you can stop him when he bucks. What you are showing him now by getting bucked off is that YOU can’t stop him, therefore you are not in charge, so you are not a good leader, so he should not trust you or listen to you. A horse will not listen unless and until he has too. Forget the love and thinking that this horse cares about you, it is a horse, it only cares if he is higher or lower than you, if is higher then he will push you and treat you like a lower herd member(not being mean but thinking he is protecting you), this is not good, many will see this as love, it is not, it is dangerous and sets you and the horse to fail. As for the horse facing you and side stepping when you round pen him, he is telling you, you cannot make me run, you are weak, you are not a strong leader, you cannot make me listen, you are not higher than me - I agree with the horse! And that is why he running off and bucking with you, the exact same reasons.You need to read my entire web site, invest the time so you understand horses better or you will make this horse worse, a better bucking, more disrespectful and will end up getting hurt and then the horse will get blamed.
Well this is definitely not a horse
problem. Being retired Air Force, I have had
my dealings with cocky fighter pilot types,
so that is a hard habit to break and I
suspect that is what attracted you to him in
the first place. If you can't convince him,
ain't no reason for me to try. I
would only suggest that he do his best to set
the horse up for success. I
normally don't promote
wearing a horse out to train them, but with
confirmed buckers, that need to be trained,
there are a few extreme techniques and I
would only do them if it means the difference
between a horse going to slaughter or having
a bad life if it is not fixed or maybe if a
some old fighter pilot refuses to admit he is
not as young as he once was.
Email me on my web
site so I can send you some ideas in private
so I don't have others reading this and
trying to use this to stop minor bucking that
is more often caused by rider error and not
by a life of abuse and years of training to
buck.
As for things to help this horse, hobble
train him and have he wear hobbles every day
so he learns to be restrained (the horse not
your husband). Also do lots of
tying this horse up where there is lots of
activity, tie him at the busy place, during
the busiest time. Expose him to
lots and lots of sensory from people,
machines, traffic, other horses, buildings,
etc.. Have him wear a saddle a
lot. Any time he out or tied or
walking, saddle him up, after he gets good at
that, tie things on the saddle, a sack of
grain, a tire, boots, water jugs with water,
anything that has weight, make him balance,
make him carry a saddle and other weight so
he will get desensitized to having weight and
saddle on him. Make sure you
prepare him for this and
don't just throw it on him
and make him buck and blow up, which he may
do, but try and set him up with good pressure
and release so he will accept this and not
fight it, but if he insist on fighting it,
let him. Tie him, put it on and
let him blow, when he gets tired, walk him,
round pen him, bring him back and tie him
some more, he has to learn that bucking gets
him nothing but tired. Over time,
if you do this everyday, he will soon figure
out, it is easier to not buck than to buck.
Then you will be on your way.
After he is good with hobbles,
tie him and hobble him, it needed and then
saddle and pile the weight on.
The trick is to figure a way to
secure thing to the saddle so it
won't come off if he
blows, he has to learn that blowing up does
not get things off him, then he will see no
point in doing it.
Like your hubby, I love challenges like this,
especially if someone tells me it
can't be done, if it is
too dangerous or I am too old. So
since you can't stop him,
help him, teach this horse bucking is hard
work, bucking gets you nothing, and it is
your choice. After you do all
this, the chances of him doing with a person
will be less and at least will be less
forceful. I would NOT try and
stop him from bucking, I would ignore it for
a while and just pet him when he stops, then
let him blow and pet when he stops, as he
gets better on his own, then you can start
correcting when he bucks and see if he
respects your command to stop, then once you
get him doing that, then your odds are better
when you get on him and try to command him to
stop. First you have to make sure
he knows what you want when tell him to stop
and at least know that he does know how to
stop and will stop when you ask.
The correction for bucking needs
to be jerking the head to his butt, so when
you are in the saddle and jerk or pull one
rein, he will know what you want.
Trying to teach this in the air
is not a good plan, even for a pilot.
There ain't no
HUD on the back of a horse and the ejection
seat tends to go out without much warning.
I guess you could get him to wear
a parachute but don't
think he will have time to deploy it, but it
might make you feel better.
:)
Good luck,
|
QUESTION: I am a 52 yr. old
grandmother. I have been around horses
all my life and have ridden almost
everything. I bought a little spotted
saddle horse, with the intentions of
her being my "retirement" horse. She
is a coming 6 yr.old. Had 30 days
training at 3 yr.s old. Not ridden a
whole lot. Was off for the last 20
months after foaling. She is very
sweet tempered and good on the
ground. I rode her several times
before purchasing her. I now ride her
indoors in an arena, as right now in
Wisconsin, it's too cold to be
outside. She has never been ridden
indoors. Last week, I tacked her up
and walked her around the arena.
After 10 minutes of walking, I
decided to get her to move out.
Supposedly she is gaited, and I
wanted to see what she has. About 4
strides into it, she started bucking,
and then reared. I was taken by
surprise, and I did get unseated. I
got up and got right back on and rode
some more, and put her into a trot
with no problem. But, then I had to
go to the ER, because I was spitting
up blood. I now have 3 broken ribs,
and a husband who wants me to sell
her because he is afraid I'll get
hurt again. I don't want to do that!
The previous owner told me she bucked
just one time; when she was coming
out of a creek. She was 3. Other than
that, no problems, other than she is
very rough around the edges when it
comes to reining, but she seems very
eager to please, and willing to
learn. I have put this mare through
all kinds of things on the
ground..walking over tarps and
boards, exposing her to balloons,
balls, opening an umbrella in front
of her, dogs barking, plastic bags,
all kinds of stuff, and she takes it
in stride. The day she bucked there
was nothing any different than it
ever is. Same place to ride, same
tack. 2 days before I had ridden her
in the arena with other horses, and
she did great. She never pins her
ears, or shows agressive behavior.
She is pastured with my other mare,
an wise old 25 yr. old quarterhorse.
She is never stalled. She is on very
good quality hay, and gets grained at
night.Other than just getting back on
her to ride, right after I was
bucked, I have not done anything with
her, because my doc ordered me to not
ride for 2 weeks. I am not afraid of
getting bucked off, it's not the
first time, but, at my age, it really
sucks!!! I think this horse has great
potential, and she has so many great
qualities that I think she is worth
another shot. When I go back to ride
her, I would like some frsh ideas, or
some tips on things I can do to show
her that bucking is unacceptable.
Thanks!!!!!
Geri Slow down, start over and set the horse up for success. "If you take the time it takes, It takes less time". |
Easy Sparky!, if you read your email you
said you had been around horses your entire
life and have ridden everything.
So please forgive me if I
misunderstood this. As you not
falling off a horse since you were 8 years
old, I guess that record is past tense now.
You now want to say the only mistake was
believing what someone told you.
Anyone that has been around horse
people for a day or a year would know, that
you put your life in your hands when you
believe what others tell you, as you did.
As for chewing your butt you see
things as you want to see them, I did not
call you names or even attempt to chew you
out. You still want to see this
as NOT your fault, you did nothing wrong but
believe someone else is to blame.
Sorry my dear, wrong again, you
got on a horse that was not ready or safe and
wanted to be "cowgirl or cowboy up" and like
many people have found out, you are not as
good as you think you are and a horse will
show you that anytime you think so.
There is not a horse in world
that I ride that can't throw me, I know this,
so I spend time and try and prevent it from
happening. NO one can make you
look like an idiot, but you. So
go ahead and keep believing that you did not
fall off and that you decided to jump or got
thrown. You hit the ground and
could have been killed. How you
got there is not real important.
Why you got there should be your
concern. And if you keep wanting
to believe you did not fall off, you were
thrown off, all you did was believe someone
or it is my fault for telling you what you
need to hear, so be it. I can not
help people with egos that want to make this
about them, their egos, whether they look
like an idiot or who don't want to hear what
they need to hear. Perhaps had
someone told you this before, you would not
have had to learn this lesson, I say that
with reservation, since I am not sure you
learned a lesson. The fact that
you got back on the horse after it bucked,
and were so proud of that fact, shows that
you still believe the old tough girl/cowboy
crap that gets people hurt and gets horses a
bad name.
Horses pay for people's mistakes.
Your husband's first thought was
get rid of the horse. Maybe he
knows you better and figures you won't get it
and will "get back on" "show the horse who is
boss" and get yourself killed.
You also said you had professional trainers
tell you the same thing I told you but nicer.
I ain't taking your money, you
are not paying me and I am not in this to
help people that don't want to listen, I do
this to try and help HORSES! I
don't think I can help your horse since he is
stuck with you. So you do what
you want, that has always been your option.
I gave you my take on the
situation from what you told me, if you don't
like the answer, don't do it and don't ask
the question. Your ranting
response shows that you think you know it
all, you will not accept that you caused this
and will always find others or the horse to
blame.
From what you told me the horse is smart
and is doing what horses do. He
is telling you that he does not care about
getting his ass run off chasing barrels or
chasing cows. You can send this
horse to 100 trainers, this problem has been
caused by you and you can fix or give him to
someone who wants a good horse just to ride
and run and compete all the time.
You call this his job, it is not
his job it is you goals and your wants and
you are using the horse get it.
No horse wants to be ran and
worked all the time. In earlier
years of horses a horse was ridden more,
spent more time with, cared for by the owner,
and taken care of better since the horseman's
life depended on it. A horseman would rarely
run their horse at full speed from concern of
hurting the horse and preventing it from
being ridden. Now in the world of
time, awards, medals and other prizes, all of
which mean nothing to a horse.
This horse may not like his job since it
hurts, just because we can't see it or a vet
can't find it, does not mean the horse is not
in pain. I walk around with pain
almost everyday, but not many know about
unless I tell them. The horse may
be telling you the only he can.
Or he may just be saying enough
is enough, I do not like getting kicked, ran,
spurred, having the reins pulled on, or
whatever it is that has made him sour to the
ring.
As I said at the start you owned the horse,
you caused this behavior and only you can fix
it. You can't expect your horse
to change if you continue to do the same
thing. By you not wanting to ride
the horse, the horse gets what he wants.
If the horse respected you and
saw you a good fair leader then he would not
buck.
It sounds like you have TRIED to give the horse what you think he needs, massages, training from stranger, medical check ups, I think the horse needs someone to see the world from his eyes, see how much fun it is living his life, some who thinks like a horse and if they were a horse would they want to be used or treated like he is being treated. People think giving a horse a good home, nice stall, blanket, good hay, good vet care and grain means they are being good to the horse. A horse would much rather be loved, spent time with relaxing and grazing like horses do in a herd. None of that other stuff means much to a horse.
Instead of continuing to send your horse
away for strangers to force their will on him
for months at a time, either change what you
do with him and how you spend time with him
or give him to a good home where a he can
relax, be a horse and not have so many
JOBS.
If you don't enjoy riding him, how or why
would expect him to enjoy having you ride
him. You like many horse owners want to make
this a horse problem. It is not,
your horse is horse and only a reflection of
you and what you do to him. The
more you understand horses the more you
understand yourself. I say it all
the , when people describe their horse, they
describe themselves.
Probably not the answer you wanted to hear,
but that is my take from what you have told
me.
Easy Sparky!, if you read your email you
said you had been around horses your entire
life and have ridden everything.
So please forgive me if I
misunderstood this. As you not
falling off a horse since you were 8 years
old, I guess that record is past tense now.
You now want to say the only mistake was
believing what someone told you.
Anyone that has been around horse
people for a day or a year or more would
know, that you put your life in your hands
when you believe what others tell you, as you
did. As for chewing your butt you
see things as you want to see them, I did not
call you names or even attempt to chew you
out. You still want to see this
as NOT your fault, you did nothing wrong but
believe someone else is to blame.
Sorry my dear, wrong again, you
got on a horse that was not ready or safe and
wanted to be "cowgirl or cowboy up" and like
many people have found out, you are not as
good as you think you are. There
is not a horse in world that I ride that
can't throw me, I know this, so I spend time
and try and prevent it from happening.
NO one can make you look like an
idiot, but you. So go ahead and
keep believing that you did not fall off.
You hit the ground and could have
been killed. How you got there is
not real important. Why you got
there should be your concern. And
if you keep wanting to believe you did not
fall off, you were thrown off, all you did
was believe someone or it is my fault for
telling you what you need to hear, so be it.
I can not help people with egos
that want to make this about them, their
egos, whether they look like an idiot, who
don't want to hear what they need to hear.
Perhaps had someone told you this
before, you would not have had to learn this
lesson, I say that with reservation, since I
am not sure you learned a lesson.
The fact that you got back on the
horse after it bucked, and were so proud of
that fact, shows that you still believe the
old tough girl/cowboy crap that gets people
hurt and gets horses a bad name.
Horses pay for people's mistakes.
Your husband's first thought was
get rid of the horse. Maybe he
knows you better and figures you won't get it
and will "get back on" "show the horse who is
boss" and get yourself killed.
You also said you had professional trainers
tell you the same thing I told you but nicer.
I ain't taking your money, you
are not paying me and I am not in this to
help people that don't want to listen, I do
this to try and help HORSES! I
don't think I can help your horse since he is
stuck with you. So you do what
you want, that has always been your option.
I gave you my take on the
situation from what you told me, if you don't
like the answer, don't do it and don't ask
the question. Your ranting
response shows that you think you know it
all, you will not accept that you caused this
and will always find others or the horse to
blame.
It sounds like you are doing ok.
Don't let her get release when
she bucks, she needs to get more pressure for
bucking. On my horseman tips page
I talk about Bucking strap and nightlatch,
put one on your saddle and it will help you
ride out the bucks until you can correct her
and put pressure on her to stop her.
If you have one hand on the
bucking strap, your other hand needs to work
the one rein. Pop it and get her
to tilt her head to it, that way she cannot
buck as hard and you will be making her think
bucking is not good and gets her more
work.
If you have a round pen, put her in it, ride
her at a canter, after a good warm up and get
her out of this habit, this has worked for
her in the past so she is trying it on you,
run her butt off a bit and it will stop.
If you don't have a round pen,
put her in the smallest arena or enclosed
area you have. Ask for a canter,
and as soon as she tucks her head, pull/hold
ONE rein only, that will cause her head to
tilt to the side so she cannot buck as good
or as hard, keep that one rein tight until
she gives and put her head up, all the while
keep asking for the canter and put pressure
to run, anytime her head goes towards the
ground or tucks to buck, ONE rein only pull
and tilt her head (pop it) until it comes
back up. After she runs a lap or
so, let her walk, then trot and into a canter
again, after a couple of canters with no
bucks or head tuck, let it go for the day and
do the same thing the next day in a few days
it will go away.
Question: i am 24 years
old, i have had my own horses since i was 9,
they have all been backed but i have enjoyed
schooling them to a higher standard. recently
i have been helping out with a lovely 5 year
old cob cross mare,she is in a feild with
others at night then brought in at night and
stabled. she has a lovely gentle nature and
is great to handle in the stable. she was
backed a year ago, by this i mean she was
lunged and long reigned with no problems. she
was great at first and took someone getting
on her back in her stride. however that is as
far as it went when asked to trot she shakes
her head and starts to buck and rear this can
be just from hearing a voice command to trot.
i lunge her in her saddle with no problems
but as soon as someone gets on her back and
she is asked to trot either by the person
riding or lunging she starts bucking. im at a
loss as to what i should do, do you have any
ideas?
Answer: It
sounds like the horse is either confused or
does not respect you. Either way
you need to spend more time confirming what
you want from the horse so you are sure the
horse is not confused. If you can
lunge on the ground then you should be able
to lunge with a rider on. If
this horse understands your commands and
instructions, then it should listen with or
without a rider. Make sure the
horse is good without a rider, make sure it
knows walk trot and canter cues well and does
them consistently then add a rider with no
reins, and no instructions from the rider,
just have the rider to be a passenger, then
lunge the horse as normal. Most
issues are fear or lack of respect, both
create the other so make sure what is the
real issue and help the horse find the right
answer. The horse is telling you
something, either you are not clear, it is
confused, it is scared, it does not respect
you, something, so listen to the horse and
help her find the right answer.
Q: We rescued a little 3 to 4
year old mare last year. She had been severly
starved and abused. After almost a year she
is a different horse but...
In training her, we have come to realize that
this mare was used as bucking stock and was
abused afterwards. The most probable reason
she was taken away from the bucking arena is
that she falls over if you don't get bucked
off.
Other than bucking her out with a mannequin
on top of her, which might not be good when
she falls over, or using a live person who
could get seriously hurt, do you know of any
other options?
A: You have to teach this
horse that bucking it the wrong answer and
bucking only get her tired. Do
lots of ground work with saddle and if she
bucks correct her, show her you can stop her,
teach her what you do to get her to stop, so
when you ride her she knows what you do to
stop her, she knows that you can stop her and
she knows bucking is not the right
answer.
If she is only 3 and was already used as
bucking horse, she was started way too young
and may be in pain from riding too early.
let her grow and heal until five.
In the mean time do lots of
ground work, handling, and teach her that you
are lead horse and leader, bucking is like
kicking or biting, it is a sign of disrespect
and resistance. The more show the
horse that you will not allow this, the less
likely he will buck when you start riding
him.
Read my web site so you really understand
horses differently.
First Horse - New Owner Question:
Hi Rick, I am writing to get your thoughts
and opinion. I've had several people at the
barn tell me that I should sell Tino and buy
an older and more trained horse because it is
their opinion that he is too much for me as I
don't have enough experience, and time to
train him, etc. What are your thoughts? You
have been around Tino and I wanted to know
what your thoughts are. Do you think Tino and
I are doing okay? Do you think I am capable
of handling him and training him? Should I
just ignore these people? I really want to do
what is best for Tino, and just selling him
off to someone because I'm a dumb-ass doesn't
seem right. It seems selfish to me. He didn't
ask me to buy him. I know you will be honest
with me and I would really appreciate knowing
what you think because I know how much you
care about horses. Answer: For some reason I
lost this email and just found it, sorry I
did not get back sooner. This is tough one.
Since it makes no difference to me and I have
nothing to gain or lose, I can say keep him
and forget what others say or I can say get
rid of him since he young and you are not
that experienced. But it is not that simple.
Both you and Tino have something to lose and
gain by your decision. As an experienced
horseman I think Tino is a great horse and
easy to work. Would I tell someone with
little experience to buy him, probably not.
Does that mean you should get rid of him,
probably not. Should you keep him since I
think he is good, probably not. You have to
make this decision based of what you know, I
can only give you information and what you do
with it, how you use it and what happens in
the future is all up to you. I rarely tell
someone to get rid of a horse no matter what,
I think if you buy a horse, you buy to entire
deal and if you went too fast, did not think
it through, did not do your homework or
suddenly now think you are over your head,
none of those reasons are good enough to make
a horse pay for what you did. Now if this
horse was attacking you, kicking you,
breaking bones and you could not even lead
him, then I might say it is better for the
horse and you to get rid of him. I do not
think you are in danger, unless you do
something that puts you in danger, like
taking Tino running down a busy hwy, that
would be stupid and dangerous and then I
would tell you that you are too stupid to own
any horse. :) That is not the case. You
called yourself a dumb-ass, all new horse
owners are ignorant about the many aspects of
horses, normal learning curve. If you jumped
into a class in college on advanced physics
and then called yourself a dumb ass, which
would be the same situation. You, or anyone
else can't expect to learn about horses in a
year or two, that is why so many people fail
with horses. Can you imagine going to Harvard
and saying I want to have a Doctor's Degree
in Space Travel in one year and then went
out, bought a space ship and then got
frustrated since you could not fly in your
space ship? Same thing with a horse. In some
way the space ship is easier since it is not
living, fearful, survival driven, emotional
and has a mind of it's own, like a horse
does. So, when people claim to know about
horses, give advice about how and what others
should do with horses, it is really easy to
pick out the ones that don't have a clue.
Anyone that really understands horses knows
it is not the horse that is dangerous. It is
not the horse that has problems. It is not
the horse that is the problem, it is the
owner/operator/handler. In the horse world
(of mostly women) the answer to problems is a
different horse, a different saddle,
different feed, different stalls, different
equipment and everything but, taking the time
to learn, grow and become a horseman. The
first options are easy and fast, becoming a
good horseman takes years of commitment,
dedication, time, maybe a few hard knocks and
investment. One way is easy and screws the
horse over, the other way makes you better,
teaches you many life lesson and makes you
appreciate your horse, your accomplishments
in horsemanship and teaches you more about
horses than all the know-it-alls in the
world. So it may sound like I am trying to
talk you into keeping your horse, I am not. I
don €™t want you to keep him
from what I say or what I believe. Just like
a don €™t want to MAKE a
horse do something. I want to make a horse
WANT to do something €“
very different than making him do it. If a
horse wants to do something it is a choice,
shows trust and understanding. If I make a
horse do something it only shows I
don €™t have the knowledge
or understanding to help the horse to
understand and to want to do it. When people
listen to trainers or barn experts, they
don €™t make educated
decisions with commitment and dedication.
Listening to others gets frustrated horses
and horse owners, You making an educated
decision gets people that want to learn, want
to grow, want to become better for themselves
and their horse. Another thing about people
that are quick to say, get rid of that horse
are the same people that send their horses to
trainers, they buy horses that are old with
lots of training, they search for bloodlines
that produce calm horses, so they can be lazy
and not take the time to learn. Then when
something goes wrong, they can blame the
trainer, blame the horse or the
horse €™s past. They accept
no responsibility for learning or investing
the time, so they pass blame to others or
then if they still fail they just sell their
horse and get a
€œbetter € one. I
have owned a car almost my entire life, yet I
could build one or fix one. Yet the first
thing from most Barn experts is
€œI have owned horses my
entire life €. So that statement
impresses others that
don €™t know. You can have
ten years experience or you have one year
experience ten times, a very big difference.
Owning a horse does not make a horseman
anymore than owning a college would make you
smart. I like most all horses and think they
are all good, so me saying Tino is a good
horse and I like him is not much a
endorsement. Your future with him is entirely
in your hands not mine, not his and damn sure
not the people who are telling you to sell
him. With that said, would you be safer with
an older horse, maybe. Would you enjoy an
older horse more, maybe. Could you get hurt
on an older horse, sure. But all of this
depends on you, what you do with the horses
(regardless of age or training), what
mistakes you make, what you do right or
wrong, what you rush and go to fast, or if
you took your time and invested time. It all
comes down to you. Hope this helps, Rick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No one has a clue about owning a horse until
they do it. Being a responsible horse owner
means you do things to prepare, learn and
increase your odds of success. Since a horse
suffers because of what you do or don't do,
when you take a horse, you should be somewhat
prepared. I know way too many horse owners
that want to save and love the idea of a
horse, they have never picked a hoof, they
don't own a horse trailer, they drive cars,
they own no horse gear, most of all they have
no understanding of the horse. To me that is
unfair to the horse and sets them both up for
failure. People think I am hard or too rough
and direct with my answers. A horse does not
have a voice, it is only a horse and that is
all it knows and far too often people who
mean well, who want to help and save a horse,
end up getting seriously hurt or killed
because they want to be nice and kind and
when they get hurt or killed, someone wants
to blame the horse and put the horse down. I
see it far too often and don't have much
patience for people that claim to love a
horse and send the horse down a road of
failure because they jump into something
without having a clue. Understanding horses
is not that difficult, but it does takes
time, discipline, work, consistency, trial
and error, money, and many other things, it
is not like buying fish and feeding them once
in a while. So my point is, being new and not
having a clue means nothing to the horse, he
does not care that you are new or the best
horseman in the world, he is only a horse and
that is all he knows how to be...it is your
responsibility to learn his way, to
understand him so you can help him. So
excuses, you meaning well, you trying, you
doing the best you can means nothing. This
horse is going to be a horse regardless of
what you do. The faster you get that, the
better you both will be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: I was really looking for someone
with medical knowledge who could help us. If
you can't help, I understand. We have an old
pony (about 20 years old) He is losing weight
and can't gain any weight no matter how much
we feed him. His coat hasn't shed in 2
seasons. His stomach is contracting all the
time and he has become so thin. There are not
many vets around here that do house calls and
we can't really afford the expense to pay one
to come to our home. We have read online
about cushings disease, but he is not showing
all of those symptoms. Could you advise us in
any way as to how to help our "gypsy". Thanks
for your time. Answer:20 years is not that
old. Lots of things can cause what you are
seeing. Lack of exercise, lack of grass hay,
bad teeth, not being wormed and many others.
As horses get older they do not shed or grow
hair as easy, so grooming is more important
to help them. If his feet are not done he
could be in pain so he walks less, which
means he eats less and things go down hill
from there. Answer: If this horse has all the
grass hay the can eat, a flake of alfalfa
once a day, some rolled or whole oats (2 - 3
cups a day) some rice bran maybe a little
sweet feed mixed in, this horse will put on
weight. If you can't afford a vet, then maybe
you are not providing enough of the right
feed often enough. Also maybe you should find
the horse a home where a vet is available.
Putting on weight is not an overnight thing,
it may take a few months, but just do it slow
and don't try and do too much too fast or you
can kill the horse. So do this: worm the
horse have the teeth checked give lots of
grass hay, 2 flakes morning and night (grass
being Oat, Rye, Orchard, etc) give alfalfa
hay a flake a day, half morning half at night
give 2 cups of oats in morning and 2 cups at
night give 1 cup of rice bran morning and
night This horse will gain weight if you do
what you need to do, you cannot just throw
some low quality hay out once or twice a day
and expect that to work. This horse should
have hay out all the time so she can eat when
she wants to and never be hungry and never
have to wait for food.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: I recently purchased a 5 year old
Belgian who came to me with poor ground
manners. We have been working on teaching her
that it is not ok to plow over humans on the
lead and to stand in the cross ties, etc.
These things are improving, although, she
will still test her limits. She has, however,
begun chasing children who come out to the
pasture to retrieve their horses. She does
not do this to me or other adults. She is
very large, weighing over 2000 pounds, and I
am concerned with the danger of this
situation. Is there anything I should focus
on in her handling to help alleviate this
problem. I am not in the pasture to do any
type of intervention when the chasing occurs.
ANSWER: Like most problems, this is a people
problem not a horse problem. A horse will not
chase something that does not run. It the
child cannot stop a horse from chasing it,
maybe it should not be in the pasture with
many horses. ONLY the person getting chased
can stop this, not you. If you are there and
do stop it, it means nothing to the horse. A
horse will only respect someone it has too
respect. You can tell the kid to keep a
plastic grocery bag in her pocket and when
your horse comes to shake it over her head at
the horse. The problem is this is just a
cheat and does not address the real problem,
which is the kid that is letting your horse
chase her, the kid is running from the horse,
the kid is not showing the horse it can't
chase her, the kid is causing the horse to
chase her. All horses are bigger than people,
it has nothing to do with size. Your horse
may also be protecting the herd or wanting to
play....it is obvious that you or the kid
being chased does not understand horses or
the way they think. This is perfectly normal
horse behavior and anyone who understands
horse would know this. If a horse kicked you
when you took his food, you might see this as
the horse is mean or the horse is possess of
his food or he has a bad habit............ I
would say it normal horse behavior.. A horse
is only a horse and that is all it knows how
to be, this is NOT a horse problem. Read my
site it will help you see horses as they are
and understand them better. ----------
FOLLOW-UP ---------- QUESTION: This is both a
people problem and a horse problem! I am
fully aware that this can be normal horse
behavior. I am also fully aware that it is
most likely occuring because the child is not
demonstrating to the horse that she is in
charge. However, acting disrespectful to any
human is not tolerated at our stable and this
horse needs to learn this. I was simply
looking for any suggestions you might have to
assist this h orse in learning that she is
always sub-ordinate to any human being. And
size does make a difference. This horse is
gigantic compared to the other horses in the
pasture and kids who are normally confident
in the pasture are intimidated by her, as are
the adults. Even other horses who would
normally be more dominant in the field are
intimidated by her. And she was the bottom
horse in the pecking order at her prior home.
I have lots of experience with abused animals
and have never identified an animal as mean.
Anyone who works with animals on any regular
basis would tell you that animals act
instincively and don't have "mean" in their
repertoire of behaviors. That is purely a
human behavior. And I could care less if this
is "normal" horse behavior. It is not
acceptable to chase people out of your
pasture - ever! I have reviewed your website.
And I have to tell you that you rip on people
who call their horses names but you do the
same thing to people! Telling people they
obviously don't know anything about horse
behavior is the same thing as calling their
horse stupid! It doesn't provide any
solutions to the problem. You didn't tell me
anything I didn't already know. But thanks
anyway. Answer: OK, you are right, if you
know so much and are so experienced, then why
are asking me questions. This is not a horse
problem, we can agree to disagree. I think
you are wrong and 99% of all horse problems,
including this one, is a people problem. This
horse WILL not chase someone that does not
run. And you are on such a high horse that
you want to get insulted by answer. If you
know all that you told me you, then why have
you not fixed this? If you fix this, write me
back and please explain how you can train a
horse not to chase someone when you are not
there and the other person runs and is scared
of the horses. This will be a new revelation
in horse training. You response reminds me of
an old saying: "It is hard to get down from
your high horse gracefully." And if you don't
like my answers or my web site, feel free not
to read or ask me questions and don't go to
my site. See that is the wonderful thing
about being a human, WE have choices and
horses do not, which is why "it is never the
horse's fault". Good Day!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION: Hi, im hoping you might have some
advice for me about my mares lameness. About
4 years ago some 'fool' left the field gate
open and all the horses ran loose around the
surrounding fields.. my mare came back lame
on the front left with no obvious reason (no
cuts, swellings or heat etc) this went on for
a couple of weeks so got the vet out, she was
taken in for X-rays and all sorts of
injections in her legs and anything the vet
could think of (she was at the vets for
roughly 2week) eventually the vet just said
they had no idea why she was lame and that
its perminant. After 5months of lameness she
was sound again and fine to be ridden. I
continued to ride her fine mainly hacking
with some schooling or jumping for about 2
years. Since then i've put her on loan a few
times and shes gone lame from what i can
gather this is why - 1st time on loan the
loaner trotted her on roads for over an hour
and she was then lame for 2months - 2nd tome
on loan larger rider and constantly ridden in
school bending on hardish ground and was lame
for 4 months - 3rd time small rider ridden
ridden only in school again and was lame for
2/3months. Each time its the same leg shes
lame on, i find that running cold water on it
helps but as i said theres no heat or
swelling. I was wondering if you have any
idea as to what it could be or how i may be
able to prevent it so she can be used more,
at the moment shes hacked lightly and doing
fine though. Shes only ever had a problem
with being lame since the day she escaped 4
years ago, before that i use to compete every
weekend jumping showing xcountrys etc for 4
years with no problem, shes 14.2hh and 14 now
i got her when she was 5 she came from
american adventure originaly sold on at
4years to who i brought her off who broke her
lightly and i brought her on from there with
no problems. I know shes 3/4 quarter horse
not 100% what the other 1/4 is. Sorry to
ramble wanted to get everthing out. I
understand not many replies are now given but
any advice will be listened to and i will be
greatfull although i also understand i may
never get to the bottom of her lameness.
Thanks for reading. Regards, Gemma. P.s i've
uploaded a picture of her to show her weight
and leg build. Shes the bay. image:
Horses-702/2009/08/Tina.jpg ANSWER: There are
two types of horses: Those that are hurt and
those that will be hurt. My first thought is
stop giving her to others so they can hurt
her. She has a injury, jumping, running on
hard ground and shoes are the worst things
for this horse. You said when you left her
alone she got better, no shit, she was not
carrying an extra 150 lbs, she was not being
run, she was not being jumped.... I can't
imagine why she got better.... You asked for
my opinion and I almost always take the
horse's side. This horse can't tell you it
hurts, just because you can't see pain does
not mean she is better. I hurt a lot of the
time when I some things and I don't limp or
you would not know it. Just because she is
not limping does not mean she is not hurting.
Go do some jumping jack on the cement and I
bet your feet, ankles or knees will hurt and
you may not limp. I say stop jumping her
absolutely. That is the worst thing for a
healthy horse, it causing pounding,
concussions, pressure and puts all 1000
pounds on two small hooves with compounding
force. Think about it a horse walks on four
hooves to support their weight, you cut that
support in half when you jump since the horse
lands on two front feet.. if you don't think
that is a big deal, go stand on a chair and
you jump to the ground with only ONE foot for
support, cut you support in half and maybe
you will see how much pain it causes, once
again, people forget or don't want to think
like a horse. How often do you see horses
running in the wild, not often. How often do
you see them jumping, very rarely if ever. So
we do these things 100 times more often and
we add a saddle and the weight of a rider,
run horses in circles and then wonder why so
many horses have leg problems... it is pretty
clear to me. You did not say and I hope you
are not doing it, but a lot of people deal
with this by giving bute to "ease" the pain..
this is abuse in my book, you ride and work a
horse in pain, so you give them drugs to hide
the pain so the horse won't limp and then
later the horse has 5 times the pain and just
stands around hurting... So if you stop what
you do, the will stop re-inuring this leg.
What I say next is not the problem or will
not fix the problem, and pictures can be
deceiving, but the hoof looks trimmed too low
in heel or too long in toe, which might be
causing some discomfort and the front right
hoof looks too long in the heel, almost
club... but again some time pictures to not
show what is really there, just something to
look at.... not so you can give the horse to
someone to jump or run her, I say this to
maybe ease some of the discomfort for the
horse. Rick ---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thanks for your reply, shes not
used for jumping or competing anymore hasnt
been for a couple of years since she went
lame again and i realised there could be a
weakness so no worries there, just ridden
once a week now if that on a hack which lasts
no longer than an hour baring in mind i only
walk with some trot. She loves being hacked
her ears are forward the whole time i wouldnt
want to stop doing that unless it really was
bad for her. Also it keeps abit of weight off
her as she gets really large and is prone to
lami. Shes on no drugs although i do think
the vet put her on some when she was at the
vets 4 years ago. She shows no sign of pain
or discomfort other than the lameness but as
u said she may not show it. As for the hoofs,
i have no idea what they should look like ive
always trusted my farrier so ill mention
that. Thanks again for your response.
Answer:You're welcome. Riding for weight
control and short non stressful rides are
great...Listen to the horse it will tell you
lots of things, most are to busy doing and
never listen. Exercise is good, no shoes are
good, and not over weight is good. If your
shoer, farrier or what you call him
understand barefoot horses and barefoot
mechanics then he will know how to trim. Some
farriers that mainly do shoes, do not
understand the difference between a barefoot
trim and a shoe trim, so they just trim the
same way. A good barefoot trimmer knows the
right way to barefoot trim. Not to say your
trimmer does not know, but ask questions,
educate yourself on the hoof and trims, so
you can ask good questions and know if you
are getting BS or good answers, ask other
farriers for their opinion..... two good
horse sayings are: **You don't as a barber if
you need a haircut and you don't ask a
farrier if your horse needs shoes.... The
second is: **No hoof, No horse...(take care
of the feet they are very important) Rick
Lots of people do clicker training with
horses, some videos on youtube about it you
can watch. I trained dogs in the military for
several years, so that understanding helps me
with horses. However, there are big
differences in horses and dogs. Dogs are
predators like us and horses are prey, they
flee and learn on release. Horses also push
and try to move up and only respect a higher
and stronger leader. Praise does not work on
horses like dogs. Praise to a horse is
RELEASE. Very important and hard to learn and
use. To tell a horse yes, or that something
is the right response I want, you need to
release, fast and timing, but release
teaches, release of pressure. EVERYTHING IS
PRESSURE to a horse, a look, a stance, facing
them, touching them, talking to them, all
pressure. That is why talking interferes with
training. Horses do not talk, they
communicate with body language, pressure and
release. Really do lots of research on Herd
Behavior so you understand horses. Food works
for tricks and to help a horse understand
what you want, but for riding and long term
food is not what makes good horses, strong,
consistent, fair and understand is what
teaches horse best. As for your horse racing
training. Assume the horse has none and start
from scratch. If you treat this horse like he
knows nothing you will ensure you identify
what he knows and that way you teach him the
right things so you can ensure a good
consistent foundation. You always want to a
good safe place to move back to, if you don't
start at the beginning you will not have a
place to take him when he gets lost or
confused. This horse may have been ridden but
only to run fast on an enclosed track where
it could not go anywhere but in a circle. If
you get on this horse and think that it knows
how to give to pressure, how to turn, stop or
look to you for direction, you will be hurt
and surprised. This horse knows nothing and
what ever it has been taught has been wrong
and only creates confusion to the horse.
Confusion makes fear, fear makes lack of
trust, that puts a horse in reaction mode,
fear, flight mode and then you get thrown,
hurt and scared and all your progress goes
back tenfold. The slow way is the fast way
with horses. Read my entire site so you
really understand a horse and see the world
as a horse sees it. The is not a dog and does
not care or need you, it wants to stay alive
and wants to know what is going to happen
next so it can feel safe. And no, do not ride
or work this horse 200 pounds underweight,
let it get some weight, muscle, feel out the
new home and surroundings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for you already "mothering" this horse,
you are on a road to failure. This horse does
not need you to protect it, to bring it food,
to keep the chickens, sheep, birds or wolves
off it, it has survived for millions of years
and has done well without you protecting it's
food. It will learn to push the chickens and
sheep on its own, just like it will learn to
push you..... don't be fooled that this horse
will love you or need you or want to protect
you or wants to be your friend..... it will
only like you and tolerate you if you push
it, show it you are boss and act and talk to
it like a horse. Watch my videos, you will
think my horses love me.... they do not, they
tolerate me and respect me so they allow me
to do what I want, not because of love, not
because I give them a carrot, but because
they know I am in charge, I can make them,
they have no choice, and they see me as the
strongest leader......... NOT LOVE sorry, I
know this is a shocker for most.. :) Good
luck and pay attention, I assure you, your
horse is paying attention and learning your
weakness. //END// Follow up: I am direct,
many say I wear my feelings on my sleeve, you
know what I thinking by looking at me, this
works very well with horse and very bad with
people. A horse does not want nice or mean,
that means nothing, they want specifics, they
want to clearly know who is in charge, who
the leader and who they have to respect. This
is how a horse finds security and safety. My
goal is not to make you feel bad, no more
than a horse is trying to hurt you when it
kicks you. It may be the end result, but I
call it like I see it and a horse kicks to
tell someone it means what it says. Neither
is mean or have ill intent, it just is. The
fact that you think I make you feel bad or
that a horse is mean or wants to hurt is what
YOU see. It does not make it so. A horse is
not stupid or smart, it is not mean or nice,
it is not aggressive or passive, it is a
horse. All horses kick, all bite, all groom
each other, all look for comfort. A horse is
only the reflection of who handles it. If a
horse does right, good or whatever you want
to call it, it is because the person
communicated good, and made it easy for the
horse to find the right answer (no right and
wrong in a horse's mind) People want to make
all these terms to help themselves and make
them seem smart and make it easier on them to
cope with what they see in a horse. It is all
misunderstanding of the horse. Calling a
horse names just gets my goat and pisses me
off. I always tell people that those who call
their horse names are really describing them
self. If you see someone call a horse stupid,
stubborn, crazy, hard-headed, mean, scared,
jumpy, insecure.....look at the person and I
assure all those terms will fit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A whip is a cheat (see my article on cheats).
If you depend on it, have to have it, and use
it all the time, you don't understand what a
cheat is. Other common cheats are lead ropes,
halters, saddles, carrots, grain, hay and
many others. You should not be in a position
where you cannot do something with a horse if
you loose your cheat. People ride horses
bridleless, no head gear and bareback, no
saddle, there is not cheats there, unless the
person wears spurs and can't ride without
them. You are still looking at horse problems
as horse issues. It is not. A horse does
fine, makes no mistakes, and lives great when
no humans are around them or involved. A
horse does not ask or need your help, in
fact, most human contact is nothing more than
an annoyance and creates work for the horse,
so why would they like that, they are very
clam animals to survive, they conserve their
movement for eating, playing and learning and
running from predators. It is against all
instincts to run for no reason, so we humans
chase them to get them to move. A horse has
to know "what is in it for the horse" Stop
looking at horses as a pet, a tool or a dumb
animal that is here to amuse you or for you
to use as you see fit. Look at them as a
HORSE. That is what they know, that is what
they are, that is where they come from. Once
you know them, understand them, act like them
and become them, then you will stop fighting
with them, forcing them, blaming them and you
will both grow. The next time a person calls
a horse stupid, inform them that a horse as
the brain of a walnut and is much lower in
the evolutionary scale than humans. So if
humans are so much more advanced than horses,
who is the stupid one, the horse or the human
that can't even get a walnut brain to do what
he wants. Your question screams of confusing
and frustration, both terms I would use to
describe your horse and I have never met
either of you. You are confused and
frustrated since you don't understand or
think like a horse. Everything I have said
here is on my web site, so I tried of
re-typing it just to make it easier on
someone who does not want to make time to
read and study the site. Much like horses get
tired of people that confuse them, hit them
and don't understand them. I have spent
enough time telling you to read my site, your
next question needs to be directed to what
you read on my site and that you don't
understand what it says or what it means. If
being a good horseman was easy, everyone
would do it and be good at it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: I €™ve been around
€œcowboys € for
much of my life. This includes ropers, rodeo
folks, barrel racers, etc. NONE of them ever
does groundwork. I keep hearing more and more
about groundwork, but I find it mind numbing
and BORING. Do you do groundwork? If yes, how
often and how long? A: Not all cowboys
understand or know horses. That is how the
term €œCowboy
Up € came about. If you
don €™t what you are doing,
just cowboy up and hand on. As for ropers,
rodeo folks and barrel racers, I think you
are confusing horsemen with these people. You
will rarely see any horsemanship skills at
these events, what you see is people that
want to win, people that are competitive and
people that don €™t care
much for their horse, they just use their
horse for their needs. Now that I have pissed
off some people reading this, what and why is
ground work needed €¦. Read
some books on it to really understand it.
Basically, and very briefly, if you
understand horses, know the way they think,
then you understand the importance of ground
work. It is nothing more that spending time
with your horse, doing horse things, learning
your horse, showing and proving to your horse
that you know what you are doing, you
understand pressure and release, you know how
to talk horse, you show the horse you are a
strong and knowledgeable leader, you dominate
the horse in a non-threatening way, you move
the horse, you control his movement, you
control his direction, you can stop him, you
develop cues that the horse learns to
understand, you teach the horse how to read
you and what you want and how you ask for it.
You determine where the weaknesses are in you
and your horse, you see what happens when you
push too hard or the wrong way. All of this
improves you ability to read and understand
your horse, ground work helps you, it makes
you learn from your horse, if puts you in a
position of advantage and safety so your odds
of success is enhanced, which helps the horse
since when you fail your horse fails. So when
people tell you they don €™t
do it or see a need for it, you will know,
that they do not know or understand the way
of the horse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, it sounds like you have done a lot of
things but look at this from the horses point
of view and change what you are doing. I am
not a fan and don't believe in People that
talk to horses and then tell owners what the
horse said. I think they are rip off people
and just take advantage of people looking for
answers in all the wrong places. You keep
making this a horse problem and I see it as a
You problem. I could be wrong but I think if
I took this horse out and worked it for about
30 mins you would see a different horse. Any
time you put inexperienced people on a horse
that don't know what they are doing, the
horse pays, he gets confused, he gets very
inconsistent cues, he pays for every mistake
each new person tries and learns, this gets
very old very fast, soon the horse stops
trying to look for the right answer, cannot
learn since every rider does something
different and the rules keep changing, so the
horse gives up, it stops trying to learn and
learns to stop trying, it gets called sour,
it gets called difficult, mean, stubborn and
other names. Horses are forced into their
lives with no say, they get no choice in who
owns them, who rides them, they can't talk so
when people don't know how to handle them
they just struggle every day not knowing what
to expect, what will happen next, and live in
constant confusion and fear, confusion
creates fear and uncertainty, this creates
anxiety, which eventually creates resentment
(sour), so the horse is always adjusting will
then try and resist all handling, all riding,
all people. It is a sad and horrible life for
a horse since they are so willing and really
just try and get along with the life they are
dealt. You think since you do good with four
other horses, then this problem must be this
horse's fault, I don't believe this. I think
the other four horses have accepted their
life with you for some reason, either you do
work with them as much, the same way, what
ever the reason, all horses are different,
all horses need to be handled within their
abilities. People want every horse to adjust
to their abilities and when they don't they
label the horse. Most horses called difficult
are really smarter, they have got smarter
from poor or bad handling by various people
that did not know what they were teaching but
taught many bad lessons and over time the
horse learns that they are stronger, they are
bigger, they can win and defeat people that
don't know, so they are actually making the
horse into what the horse becomes. There are
way too many horses with a past and then they
have no future. Their past is made for them
by people that don't know and their future is
doomed by more people that don't know.
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You say the horse does not do the same
problems when you ride, of course not. You
know how to ride so the horse knows this and
knows it gets consistent cues from you, so it
knows what you want and gives it to you, your
students do the opposite and the horse gets
tired of it. You have owned this horse since
it was three and then tell me it was very
immature, no shit, it is only a baby, a three
old is like a 7 year old kid, very young and
learning, a young horse needs to be handled
right so it can grow. The horse is 11 and you
had it since three, which means you have
eight years to screw this horse up or to make
it a great horse, you can judge yourself what
kind of job you did. But don't blame the
horse either way, if it is good you did good,
if it is bad, you did bad. I don't think of
horses are good and bad, they are just
products of their handling. You talk about
this horse shooting out of a box (a trailer),
that tells me this horse has your number, he
knows you are not the boss and he can do what
he wants, he has learned you for eight years
and knows what he can do, what you can't do
and what you can't stop him from doing, so he
does what he does because of what you do or
can't do. A horse is only a reflection of
it's owner and when you get a young horse at
three you only have you to blame if the horse
turns out bad (not listening, not respecting,
refusing to give in, etc). You need to stop
making this about the horse and make it about
you. Change what you are doing and your horse
will change. The horse is stressed and
depressed since he does not know the rules,
you are looking for answers in all the wrong
places and are constantly trying something
new and different/inconsistent to try and fix
the horse and the problem is you are not
being a strong leader and giving this horse
good clear direction so he knows you are in
charge and he has to listen to you. A horse
feels better when they have a leader that
TELLS them what to do. They do not do good
when they have a bad leader that loves them,
that tires to be nice, that keeps trying and
never succeeds, that thinks somehow by asking
and not making, the horse will somehow love
them back and suddenly become the horse they
dream about. This horse is in a bad place
with YOU. Stop making excuses for his
behavior and become a strong leader, give
specific direction and accept nothing less,
make the rules clear and don't change them
for the horse, push this horse so he knows
you will not give up, you will not stop and
be nice, but will be consistent, direct and
assertive. Once you change, your horse will
change. He could have already been what you
call trust worthy. You want to see this horse
as a horse with a past. This horse is a
horse, treat him like a horse and not like a
horse with a past. It sounds like you are
babying him. 30 to 45 days is more than
enough time to get a horse over these issues.
You said it took 3 months to stop him from
trying to kick you when you went in the
stall, it should have took about 15 or 20
mins. Somethings you don't want to rush and
take your time, but there comes a point that
if you continue to take your time the horse
knows and thinks you are a weak leader. Turn
up the heat on this horse and stop being so
easy. You think this horse trust you, I think
this horse tolerates you. If he respected
you, he would not still be doing these
things.
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Like I tell 99% of the people, most horse
problems are people problems, they are caused
by people, then continued by people, or make
worse by people. In the same way, they can be
fixed by people, they can be prevented by
people, and can be improved by people, but
only if the person really understands horses.
Everyone wants to use "natural horsemanship"
techniques (love, caring and easy training)
the problem is natural horsemanship does not
work if you don't understand a horse and if
you are not willing to treat a horse like
another horses treats them. Horse kick each
other and bite each other and chase each
other, that is what they do. That is how they
learn who is higher and who they should trust
and follow. Only then will they groom each
other, rub on each other and be friends. The
problem is most horse owners what the love,
rub and friends part and are not willing to
do the kick, bite and chase part....IT JUST
DOES NOT WORK. No I am saying to kick a horse
or bite a horse, but you can accomplish the
same thing by moving a horse, putting
pressure, making a horse respect you and your
space when you tell him to, but will only do
that if you are willing to enforce it. Most
just threaten to enforce it and the horse
knows this and learns this and then slowly
starts treating you like a lower horse. A
never ending cycle of confusion for the
horse. Make yourself better and this horse
will get better, this horse is only a
reflection of you and what you require of
him.
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Question: Our horse is so badly bitten by the
others in the paddock that we've stopped
riding him because the saddle rubs the wounds
raw. Any suggestions? Answer: You did not
provide the requested information. With what
you told me, build a wall around your
paddock, put up hot wire, move the horse out
of the paddock, make sure it is big enough so
the horse can move away from the horses, sit
in the paddock and stop the other horses,
wrap the horse is foam, move the
horse............ you ask this like I can fix
this over an email, not sure how you see this
as a behavior issue, sounds like a people
issue where the horse pays.
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Question: I am 49 years old and have owned
horses all my life. I have however never
raise a colt. I have a new appaloosa stud
colt, I was with him when he was born and he
just turned 4 weeks old. I have made it part
of my daily routine to pet him and scratch
him, in an attempt to gain his confidence.
Today, I rubbed a foal halter on his mother
and then on him. He stood quietly while I
slid it up over his nose. When I started to
fasten it he started jumping and struggling.
I instinctively held on and let him fight it
out for 30 seconds or so and he settled down
and let me handle him any way I wanted to.
Did I do this right or is he too young?
Should I repeat this or should I leave the
halter on him awhile. The mare and colt run
freely from barn to pasture. I believe it is
relatively snag proof. Your advice would be
greatly appreciated. Answer: It sounds ok to
me, I would not have tried to put it on all
the way, the horse let you put put in on, you
should have taken that as a try and removed
it so the horse could get release. By holding
and trying to too fast you crated fear and
got in a situation where the horse had to
struggle. Had you touched the nose with it
and then removed it and then touched it
higher and removed it and then put it on and
removed it, several times, the colt would
never have struggled, it would have known
what to expect and would have gotten used to
it and not feared it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: I am 38 years old and have been
riding weekly for 2 months. I had a lot of
fear when I started from bad experiences as a
child when riding. I fell off a horse last
week and my teacher, knowing my background,
decided to put me on the horse that I am most
comfortable and bonded with when riding.
Yesterday my horse sat down when me on her
three times during the trail ride. This was
upsetting to me since having my experience
with falling off a different horse the week
prior. This was the first time this horse has
ever showed this behavior. Why did the horse
do that? This horse is in a herd of 15 other
horses and spends time in a stall and a
pasture. My teacher said that she spent more
time in the stall this past week than in the
pasture. Please help me understand. Answer:
lol, could be lot so things, but what is was
not was he was not being mean, he was not
trying to hurt you, the was not being bad.
There are so many reasons this could have
happened, but my guess would be it was hurt,
out of shape or weak from not being ridden or
it was confused was getting conflicting cues
and signals from you so it did not know what
to do or it knew that you were nervous and
scared and felt that you were tense and not
relaxed so maybe in this horse's past he sat
down one time and the rider got him, so he
remembered and decided to try it with you...
my guess is you got off him like you were
running from a burning building and a little
light went in on his head, and bell went
"Ding" and he said holy cow, I just figured
out how to get this girl off me, so he did it
again, and my guess is you got off again and
so the lesson goes, he trained you to get off
when he laid down.... They don't call horses
"professional people trainers" for nothing...
:) If you want to teach a horse to do
something make it comfortable for them, if
you want to teach them NOT to do something
make it uncomfortable for them. So when you
get off, you make him comfortable. When a
horse sits of TRIES to lay down with me, I
make him very uncomfortable, I squeeze, I
yell, I raise my hands, I wiggle in the
saddle, shake my legs, I act like I just won
the lottery and the horse goes holy crap, I
better not lay down my rider just went
crazy... and then we walk off for a nice
ride... :)
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Question: I am 43 years old and have been
riding since I was 11. I worked and trained
for a couple of facilities in my 20's mostly
in the Arab world. I showed in reining and
working cow classes myself but then went on
to just being a horse enthusiast and enjoying
my horses out on the trails and doing some
penning with friends. My horses are now 21
and 24 years old and have been in pasture the
past 7-10 years. They are sound and healthy
and was wondering now that my daughter is 12,
is it wrong to pull my 21 year old gelding in
from pasture and spend some time with him in
the saddle again so my daughter can enjoy
him? What are the pro's and cons? My daughter
is a beginner rider having taken lessons and
been out on the trails. She would just be
doing some basic arena work learning to walk,
jog, lope and learn some basic fundamentals.
I would love to pull him in for the summer
for her so she has her own horse instead of
always using someone else's. Please give me
some advice and direction on doing something
like this and if it is advisable. Answer:
Lots of options and lots of unknown. The 21
year old would be better since the 24 is
getting up there, but it would depend on
temperament, ability, attitude of horses, how
much time you spend re-teaching, how much
resistance the horse shows when ridden again,
how willing your daughter is (your idea or
hers) does she want to just run and jump or
does she realize that the horse is old and is
just an easy ride. You know the horse, you
know a whole lot more info than I do. The old
saying, "young troopers need old horses" this
has been around years since older horses tend
to be lazy, less likely to run off, buck or
hurt a young inexperienced rider. Older
horses tend to be less flighty and less
likely to want to fight. However, this old
horse has not been ridden every day and has
not been exposed to the same things that
older horses that are ridden everyday have.
You could bring this horse out and it could
allow you ride, be soft and show no
resistance since it knows you and then may
change with your daughter. I would teach your
daughter to work it on the ground, spend time
with it, develop a relationship, see how they
act together, you will see if problems like
pushiness, aggressive, biting or kicking
happens. Or if they bond like each other and
become friends. Too often people think you
can pick a path with a horse and then they
get stuck since they are unwilling to change
as the horse or situation changes. Too many
variables, each next step will depend on what
happens at each step. So to try and guess at
the results at the end is impossible, since
the will be determined by what is done with
the horse at each step of the way. Go slow,
start like the horse has never been ridden,
don't over work or push too hard, build a
good foundation and decided what to do after
you do this... You did what many do, you did
not break it down to little steps with lots
of release and repetition so the horse would
know what to expect and never would have
become confused and scared. You created fear
instead of removing it. Not a great lesson,
but no one got hurt so not a bad day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It €™s funny, I would think
more women would be more compassionate about
this topic. If my wife was pregnant I would
have the attitude €œExercise
if good for you so go cut the
grass €. It probably would not
hurt her to cut the grass but most women I
know, who are or have been pregnant,
don €™t feel good, have
swelling in the joints, pain in the internal
organs, pressure in parts of the body they
did not know they had and not to mention you
have emotions and hormones in play more. I
try and look at horse €™s
like it was me. If I was a horse, what would
I want? I agree light riding will not
necessarily hurt a pregnant mare. However,
when a mare if pregnant they gain weight,
this puts more pressure on joints, legs and
body. So even when a horse can carries a
rider normally it is putting pressure on the
back, legs and joints. Now you add the weight
of being pregnant and you increase the chance
of causing lameness. Pregnant mares have a
higher chance of lameness just by being
pregnant, now you throw the weight of a rider
and you increase the chance of causing
lameness. If you end up causing lameness then
the mare could be confined to a stall which
is not good for her the baby and could cause
her to abort if the lameness was serious
enough. If the horse gets started, trips, or
spooks or falls it could cause or increase
the chance of a miscarriage. Pregnant mares
sometime get cinchy due to their girth is
sensitive and it is uncomfortable. Since this
sounds like your first pregnant mare, make
sure you check the wormer you are using, some
are good for pregnant mares and can harm the
foal. I will agree that exercise is good,
nice long walks, good pasture turn out and
not stalled is all good for the mare. A
general rule is if you ride at all, make it
light, slow and non-stressful. And only ride
for the first two trimesters and no riding in
the third. In horses, the baby stays
relatively small until the third trimester
when the foal really grows. If I was
pregnant, I know I have no experience in
this, but if, I would not think I would want
to be ridden that much, but would enjoy
walks, grazing and maybe light short rides.
Here is a good link to review about pregnant
mares.
http://www.equinecare.50megs.com/catalog.html
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A tom bit is the worst bit out there, it is
very painful and confusing to a horse. Head
tossing is normally caused by a horse looking
for release or hard hands on the reins. (I
have an article on a TThumb bit on my article
page, it will explain why this bit is so bad)
Ride the horse with just a halter I bet it
stops. A tie down is another cheat for trying
to fix the horse and not fixing yourself.
When you get better your horse gets better.
Have a good experienced rider try and ride
the horse if the head tossing stops then that
will confirm it is you. I have ridden many
head tossers and then I ride them and it
stops. I am soft on the reins and pay close
attention to any pressure I give on a rein.
This is also caused by insecure riders who
are scared and tend to ride tight reined and
want to hold the horse back since they think
it will run off, this will get a horse to
toss as well. First a light tom thumb is like
saying I saw a light elephant. The TT bit is
one of the worst pain producing bits out
there. Many people think it is a snaffle and
it is not. It is a leverage bit with a break
in the mouth piece, but most people think
since it has a break that it is a snaffle. If
I could get rid of the worst bits the TT
would be one of them. A twisted wire snaffle
is a snaffle but one of the worst snaffles
for pain. It causes it pain. I don't blame
this horse for running, he wants the rider
off and wants the pain to stop. So it makes
perfect sense what he is doing. I always tell
people that if you can't ride your horse in a
halter, then you should not be riding it in a
bit. A halter ensures you know how to control
the horse without pain, it makes you learn to
communicate with the horse verses make him do
things with pain. I don't use bits, don't
promote them and whenever I work with a horse
the first thing that goes is the bit and then
I get to the other issues, which normally
immediately become less as the bit goes away.
Now I know that any bit can be soft or hard,
depending on who is hold the reins, so the
other rider you talk of may be scared or
nervous of the horse, so her fear causes her
to hang on and pull the bit harder thinking
that is how she can control him, this is a
mistake of many riders, new and old. A bit
does not control a horse, never did and never
will, a horse will run with a broken jaw and
bloody lips and will ignore pain if they
think their life is in danger. Pain = fear =
reaction = run that is the way of the horse.
This is not a horse problem. I have a great
article, by someone else on the TT bit on my
articles page of my web site:
http://www.thinklikeahorse.org/horsearticles.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWER: Ok, don't take this wrong, but you
are very young, so when you say you have been
around horses your whole life, that really is
not very long. Even if you were around horses
when you 2, 5, 9, you are not learning
horses, you are just being around them, maybe
sitting on them. I tell people what I am
about to tell you and they 40, 50 or 60, so I
will tell and it is even more so. You don't
know much about horses and the fact that you
think you have all this experience only gets
in the way of you learning more. I can
guarantee you this is you causing all this.
You have look at this horse like a horse, not
your possession, not you property, not your
thing to order around and control and make it
do what you want. This is hard for younger
people. Everything you do with this horse,
you look at it as if you were a horse, would
like it? Just running around an arena is very
boring and most horses hate it. Jumping is
very hard on horses, it hurts their feet and
legs and they don't like it. Horses hardly
ever jump in the wild, they run around
things, by jumping they risk falling and
hurting a leg and they know that means death
in the wild, so horse don't jump, are not
made for jumping and it hurts them now and
later in life. You say you put leg on the
horse when it does not want to go and it
kicks, I forgot to ask if you wear spurs or
use a whip, this just makes the problem
worse. You are not looking at this horse as a
partner or friend and working buddy, you are
trying to show him who is boss, force him to
do things and make him listen, this is
probably what you have been taught. I would
suggest you work on being a horsewoman, learn
the horse, learn how it thinks and lives in
the wild, without people, try and connect
with your horse as another horse, not as an
owner or master. These problems can go away
overnight and it is up to you. If you read
and learn more about horses, then you will
understand how to treat them better so they
will give you what you want without you
making them or forcing them. As I said
earlier, you are young and lots of time to
learn, but this horse is being a teacher, a
horse is the best teacher of the horse, try
and listen more to what he is trying to say
and stop trying to make her listen and make
her do things, then you will see a big
change. If you want your horse to change, you
have to change. After all, you said you ride
the horse, and the problems started and
happen when you handle or ride the horse, so
you are causing the reactions and actions of
the horse, when you get better, your horse
will get better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol, you sound like you are doing a lot and
it sounds like maybe too much. Your free
choice hay idea is good, but I would just put
two or three flakes in the morning and see
how long that last, then at night, if it is
all gone then put four flakes, when a horse
gets enough food they will get picky and will
only eat the good stuff and leave stems, so
if he is picking and leaving food then too
much, if he is almost eating everything, then
you are good. As for NEEDING to put on
weight, ease up, it takes a long time for a
horse to get really thin, then people, mainly
women, get this horse feel sorry for them and
try and feed the crap out of them and can
shock the system, it is worse to go from no
food and then excess fat food to quickly. The
US found this out when we sent too much milk
to a deprived country and all the kids were
dying from the mild since it shocked their
system to fast. Horses put on weight slowly,
let it take it's time, with feed and just
about everything else with horses, "THE SLOW
WAY IS THE FAST WAY" The horse is under
weight from neglect, with just getting fed
normal and good hay, he will put his weight
back on in time, DON'T TRY AND FIX THIS IN A
MONTH, you will cause other problems with
this horse. Too much grain and fatty food is
not good, so a few "cups" in the morning and
few at night (no more than 3 each feeding)
will be more than enough for this horse.
"Less is more with horses" Make sure he has
been wormed, make sure he has a salt block,
and get him some exercise, people want to
feed horse and then lock them up with no
exercise, he needs exercise to build muscle
and grow slowly, if you just make him fat
with no exercise, he will have bone and other
issues when he can't carry his weight.
Alfalfa is known to be good for putting on
weight, so the mix will be fine, the runny
poop is probably from all the grain and
weight gain, and other crap, back on that,
grass hay is what horse eat and do best on,
stick with that and he will be fine. Yes some
alfalfa can cause the runs, but that is when
it is too rich, normally first or second
cutting and if the horse is only being fed
alfalfa. I know you mean well, but you got
the horse from his neglected home and he is
getting good food, let it go slow and in six
months of just having food, you will see big
change, but exercise is needed too, that will
make him want to eat and will build muscle
and well help him heal emotionally.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Crap, I don't have enough time or space
to give you the cons. If you are getting it
as a pet to just feed and brush, not a big
deal, if you plan on starting it under saddle
and riding it, the short list is you can get
killed or hurt, you screw up the young horse
so bad you can't sell it or give it away, you
get hurt and get out of horses all together,
you can't ride for at least four years and
then for the 3 years it is still in training,
you never can relax and enjoy riding with a
young horse, it is such a bad idea. Green
owners should NOT own green horses...Green on
green = black and blue. I tell people this
all the time and they don't listen and I have
yet to have one person I told this that did
not agree with a year later, but then it is
too late and you own a spoiled,
uncontrollable horse that no one wants and
you end up either getting out of horses from
frustration or get out from getting hurt and
you can longer ride. Read my horsemanship and
bad horsemanship page for more examples.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First I would say get rid of the chain, no
horse needs a stud chain, it hurts, it does
not create trust, it does create fear and
pain, I agree you do need a refresher, horses
do not respond to fear and pain, they get
more fearful and learn not to trust the one
that hurts them. You said the horse does not
have the skills to realize you walk around
people and not over them, I say it all the
when you blame your horse, you describe
yourself. I think you do not the skills to
teach him how to not be fearful of you, no
skills to teach him to trust you, and no
skills to communicate with him unless you use
a chain to hurt him. I try and be the voice
of the horse. You horse is trying to tell you
this and you are not understanding this. If
you give him better direction you will not
have to call him names like he has no skills.
Your horse is only a horse and that is all he
knows. Any bad habits he has came from
people, any bad habits he keeps comes from
you, any new bad habits he gets comes from
you and anything he learn good comes from
you. Don't blame your horse, look to yourself
for the answers. Fix yourself and your horse
will get better.All horses can be fixed after
people have screwed them up, it will just
take horse time. Horse time is as long it
takes a horse to get it. Some take longer,
some take shorter, but they all get it if it
is done right. I am not a bit person, so I
would try and to a bosal and get rid of the
mech hack. However, not sure you can show in
that. She has to learn that the bit will not
hurt her or cause pain. So I would get a
snaffle and one piece leather head stall
(hanger) and let the wear the bit, no reins,
no pulling, just let her learn to carry the
bit. After a few days of this, then do some
attach small light reins, maybe even sting,
then let her carry it and just use the sting
lightly to show her she can get pressure on
the bit without it hurting. After a while of
that, you use reins, make sure you can flex
her and she knows how to give to pressure
from the ground before you try and use the
bit in the saddle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Hi I have a year old colt which has
briefly been handled - he comes up to me in
his own time and licks my hand - i can then
gently stroke is neck and then move to his
shoulder. He then sometimes walks off and
then comes back again for some more. My
difficulty is that i cannot get a head collar
on him - if he sees the head collar he is off
and wont even come near me. If i do managed
to get it near him and stroke him with it he
will then walk off. If i tried to do it up
around his neck he just darts off. Any
suggestions please. Answer: Horses know what
is going to happen before it happens, so you
are changing your body and behavior and maybe
sneaking or trying to be too easy and too
careful, this tells the horse you are up to
something and makes them want to flee. Carry
a collar with you and DON'T try and catch
him, just do your the same thing you do when
you don't have the collar, no matter how much
you think you can catch him don't, just carry
the collar, rub him with it and let him get
use to you having it and not being caught,
after a few successes then try and feed him
in a small pen or stall or small fenced in
area so he cannot run away too easy and then
try and put the collar on. Every time he runs
off from you, he tells you you are lower, he
is higher, you can't stop him, he is in
charge, he is smarter than you and he should
not trust you. All bad lessons, it is better
if you walk away first, you leave him, make
him want to follow you, make him think you
are higher, you leave first and you are
smarter. The slow way is the fast way, so
just hang out with him, spend lots of time
just hanging out, not petting chasing or any
pressure things, just handing and being part
of his herd, trust will follow and things
will get easier. All horses are dangerous if
pushed too fast, if handled wrong, if abused,
if cornered or if put into a situation where
they think their life is in danger. If the
only advice you "trainer" can give you is he
is dangerous, then that trainer is just as
dangerous for calling himself a trainer.
First you terminology bugs me, good horsemen
or horsewomen do not "break" horses, this
implies rough handling, breaking the spirit
and forcing a horse with fear, pain and
intimidation. Good natural horseman "start"
horses, by using natural instincts of a horse
to help a horse learn and deal with their
fear, using time, patience and understanding.
I know it is just a word, but wanted to make
sure you knew what I meant when I used the
word "start" This horse is telling you
something, you have figure out what. You have
to be a horse and try and see this from a
horse's point of view. Why he is doing this,
what is causing this (you?), how can you help
the horse understand what you want, how can
you work with him to get him to work with you
and deal with his fear. I do not think this
horse is doing this just to get out of work,
that is what humans would do. A horse accepts
his life when he understands he has no other
options and he is not in danger. This sounds
like a combo of issues but the two that
scream out to me is lack of respect and
improper starting (foundation, training from
this trainer) and previous mishandling. The
fact that you got on this horse and rode him
does not impress me and I think you are
gambling with luck. Each time he runs off,
stops you from mounting, pushes you away or
gets away from you, he thinks he is smarter,
he is higher and you are weak, not a good
leader and he should not trust you. This is
key to getting a horse to respond to your
request. You have to change what you are
doing so the horse will change what it is
doing. If you keep doing the same thing, the
horse will keep doing the same thing. This
horse does not trust you or respect you, that
is the bottom line, fix that and most all
other problems will go away. You are taking
the easy way if you continue to allow this
and then ride him and think he is safe, trust
you or respects you, then you are making a
bad decision and setting yourself and this
horse up for failure. Deal with this respect
and trust issue on the ground and go back to
riding, if you take the time it takes, it
will take less time. The slow way is the fast
way with horses. Read my horsemanship page on
my web site, really understand herd behavior
and sacking out, if you do this you will grow
and help this horse, if you decide to rush it
and not put in the time, then you cheat
yourself and the horse. good luck,
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Most of my advice deals with what we do as
riders that cause the problems. Since you are
the only one handling this horse, you have
taught him to do what he does. Soft hands
make soft horses, a horse will not pull
against nothing??? So first work on your
hands, really learn and practice holding and
NOT pulling and giving back as soon as the
horse gives. Do some riding with a rope
halter and ONE rein riding, this teaches you
to use one rein independently, to control the
softly since you cannot cheat and use two
reins, then after a few rides with just one
rein, you will learn how to pay attention and
really concentrate on one hand, one rein, one
cue, and one answer. This also teaches you
how to communicate with your horse since you
have to be easy, since you only have one
rein.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is in the paddock and in the
stall. We moved him to a new barn a few
months ago, and he became uncontrollably
psychotic. When he wasn't
bucking&bolting, he was very nervous
about being away from other horses. The barn
is set up so that he only consistently sees 2
other horses and occasionally sees 7 others,
but has no interaction with them. He has
gotten better about the paddock, but the
owner of the barn tells me that he is still
pacing back and forth, even when there is hay
in the paddock. She cut the paddock in half
to try to get him to stop, but he needs the
bigger paddock because of arthritic stifles.
I haven't seen him pace much as of late. When
i or my mom is there, he is quiet. He is
still bad in the barn for me when all the
other horses are outside. He is also bad if
the two other horses are being worked at the
same time and he can't see them. I'm at my
whit's end and i have no idea what to do. The
barn owner told us that me that we should
start looking at a new place for him as he is
"very unhappy there." This is true but we are
unable to move to another barn at this time.
Please help!
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ANSWER: The worst thing you can do is make
his paddock smaller, he needs horses to feel
safe, you are abusing this horse by keeping
him locked up in a small area. If you cannot
provide better care then you should not have
him. Find him a pasture with other horses
even if means you can't see him as often or
as much, you are killing this horse mentally
and his behavior will only get worse and then
he will end up hurting you when you ride him
and then he will get blamed for being a bad
horse.
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Horses are made to be locked up alone, it is
the worst thing for a horse. I discuss this
on my Bad Horsemanship page of my website.
Don't be selfish and keep this horse so you
have a horse, you will end up getting hurt by
this poor horse that is going crazy since he
is being caged and jailed.
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Answer: Well you are very detailed in your
information and I wonder if you are the same
way with your horse. Too much information may
over load this horse. Try and do less, with
horses less is more. Try and ride this horse
nice and slow NOT in arena or jumps, just
have a nice calm ride with him, get to know
him as a horse and let him get to know you
without all the yields, leg pressure, bit
controls, commands, lead, hip in and out,
hindquarter control, transitions, jumps,
trots, canters, diagonals, etc.... Just be
his friend and see what he tells you when you
just hang out with him. It sounds like he is
trying to tell lots, but maybe you are not
able to him since you are so focused on all
the specifics and riding rules.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: I am a forty year old female with a
12 year old gelding. He was given as a gift.
He is fine with my husband as the herd leader
but not so with me. When feeding in the field
he has run around me, blocked me and turned
his but to me. I am fearful of what he might
do next. I tried to lunge him - worked for
that day only. I thought the bag idea was a
really good for the young ones but don't want
to cause spookiness in this older one.
Help!!! Answer: Don't worry about spooky,
teach this horse not to mess with you, he is
testing you and if you do not respond with
making him move he will see you as weak, a
lower horse and his behavior will get worse.
Any act of disrespect from him to you should
be dealt with hard and seriously, so he will
respect and will know the right answer is not
to mess with people, I don't think you will
make him spooky and even if you do, at least
you will be safe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: I agree, Ray would not agree with
that. You said you want the horse back that
you had, which implies he was good when you
got him and now he is not, which means you
make him the way he is. If he was already
this way when you got him, then whatever you
have done has not worked and you have failed
to help him, so either way you need to change
what you are doing if you want your horse to
change. Most catching problems are from bad
catches, people problems. I catch my horses
some time to just them a carrot, some time
just to walk them to fresh grass to let them
eat, some time to bring them in for grain,
some time to just groom them, and some time
to ride them.... so they never know what will
happen when I catch them, but they do know
that it will not always be bad or work.....
So I have kept the curiosity alive the horse.
Too many people only catch a horse to lock
them in a stall, to saddle them up, to take
them to a round pen, to pull them away from
their herd, to work them, to show them who is
boss, etc... I am surprised on how many
horses allow them self to be caught... Change
what you are doing and your horse will
change, hang out with your horse without
trying to catch him, spend time with your
horse being a good pasture mate, make it
worth something to the horse so he will want
to be with you rather than worry when he see
you... The horse is never wrong and it is
never the horse's fault.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: lol, not sure what I said, but you
are right, I do not listen to people as well
as horses. However, each of your emails tend
to be about YOU telling me what I should be
listening too, what I should be seeing and
what I should be telling you. This is email,
and since 75% or more of communication is
NON-Verbal, you are only getting maybe 25% of
my message. So words and ideas tend to get
lost or blurred. So perhaps, you could maybe
take what you can from my answer, even thou
it is not perfect, like you and your horse,
and maybe accept what little help you get and
be happy with small victories, then maybe you
would grow to listen to your horse and hear
more than what you want, what you think or
what other tell you. My answers are the best
I can from a short email on complex subject
hearing only YOUR side!!! I do not get to
talk or see the horse's view, I do not get to
see you and get your non verbals and you do
not get to see mine. So another observation I
get from your email is, you want more, you
want perfection, you want it your way and
cannot accept small help, small tries and
small victories. If I helped your horse just
a little bit, I really don't care if I helped
you, make you feel valued, made you feel
special, or whatever else you are looking
for. I DO THIS TO HELP HORSES! So, if you
FEEL better telling me how I don't listen,
how I did not help, how I did not
whatever................ Sleep on this, YOU
asked me, I do this for free, I don't ask for
anything in return and 75% of the people I
try and help, blame me or their horse so I
have become very uncaring about what people
say, since I know, I do this for the horse
not for people. It is never the horse's
fault, the horse is never wrong, and people
cause most all problems with horses! A good
horseman can hear a horse talk, a great
horseman can hear a horse whisper and a bad
horseman will not hear a horse even if it
screams.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: Well, a lot of errors on your part.
Most are common rookie mistakes, but like I
always say, a horse has to pay for our
mistakes and have no choice in the matter.
The hot wire is dumb, hot should not be on
gate or where horses walk through a lot,
every time a horse get hit with hot wire and
you are holding or leading or with the horse,
the horse thinks you did it, does not know
why and it destroys trust and makes a horse
not want to be with you.... I agree with the
horse, if I got shocked for no reason when
you were around, I would not want to be
around you. Horse know how to run and protect
them self if we humans stay out of it. So you
need to pay more attention and be more aware.
You suckered your horse into an area with
another horse and then cornered him (held on
to lead rope) and prevented him from running
or protecting himself. A whip may help for a
while, but you need to make sure EVERY horse
knows you are high horse and don't mess with
you don't approach you and don't come near
you unless you invite them in. And the time
to teach this is not when your poor horse is
stuck in the middle or forced to be there. As
for when you said the herd or horses make you
chase, that is absolutely bullcrap a horse
does not make you chase them you choose to
chase them and you do it, Since you do not
know what else to do, since you decide to
chase, since you failed to learn how to be
part of a herd and how to enter a herd as
leader, you force the horses to run. This is
another rookie move and only inexperienced
horse people do this, since they fail to grow
and learn better more effective ways of
dealing and communicating with horses. Work
on your self and your horse horse will get
better. Listen to others who do not know and
you will continue to repeat their mistakes.
Learn for yourself, read, study the horse,
spend time hanging out and being with horses,
listen to horses and stop always trying to
teach them and show them, learn from them,
they are the best teacher of the horse.
Knowledge of the horse is the best gift you
can give to a horse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Now, per your advice, I'm regularly
ponying both problem mares and they love it!
The first time I ponied the bucking mare, she
pulled her lead out of my hands. She galloped
all over with the lead slamming her rear
until she figured out to gallop back to my
old gelding and me and beg forgiveness. She
never tried it again. Now she makes those
happy blowing sounds as we ride and keeps the
lead loose even though I insist on keeping
her nose within 3 feet of my knee. As for the
Paso Fino mare, today I took her on her first
serious bush whacking expedition, to a peak
of Monte Largo. I'd call it just a steep hill
with sliding rocks and cactus and junipers,
but back East people might call it a
mountain. She was worried at first when we
turned to go down as she had to just about
sit on her rump it was so steep, but after
just two or three minutes she gathered up her
courage. I'm also trying out longing the
bucking mare the donkey training way, walking
with her in small circles as she circles just
eight feet away from me, and then doing the
pivot on hind feet, then pivot on front feet
the way you do it with donkeys. Interestingly
enough, she has been making those happy
blowing sounds when we do these exercises,
which she never did before with Parelli-style
"games". Answer: Thanks for kind words. Being
right is not my goal, helping horses get a
better deal is why I do this. I really did
nothing, I tell people all the time, it is
never the horse's fault. So if it is always
our fault then when a horse does good, it is
because we did good, we listened, we set the
horse up for success, we gave good directions
and helped the horse find the right answer.
You changed what you were doing so the horse
changed. Glad to hear your are enjoying your
horses more and it seems your horses are
enjoying you more. Don't forget the lesson,
horses are just a reflection of us and what
we do. Happy trails,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWER: First I would stop caring or worrying
about what she does in pasture, who cares if
she plays runs, gets exercise, spooks, you
said she was under weight and now getting
good hay, beet pulp and other good food, now
she has energy she never had before since she
was starving, now she is learning how to use
her feet, body, turn and play and be a horse.
This barn manager that wants to pull her out
of field is an idiot, if a horse in a field
is bothering someone getting a lesson, then
the instructor and person getting the lesson
needs to worry about what they are doing and
now what a horse in pasture is doing. That is
just a bunch of crazy horse women who want to
try and control the world instead of
controlling their horse. I also think you are
reacting too much to this horse and it is
causing confusion. Ignore anything the horse
does and stay focused on what you want, no
matter what she does, do not react, do not
try and stop it, do not try and correct it,
just stay focused on what you want. This
horse is could have eye sight issues and if
she is losing her sight, that is very scary
for a horse. It could be that she knows
everyone around her gives her attention and
stops trying to make her work when she
spooks, so she could be training you and
others that she is crazy so she does not have
to work. When I say give direction, I mean
stop reacting to her, just keep showing what
you want, stay focused on the task, don't let
her distract you or get you to stop or change
what you are doing. By not reacting to her,
you show her you are smart, you are strong
and a good leader. 1: All horses drop gran,
in the wild they do not get grain, they chew,
grass, long and they even drop grass some
time, so dropping grain is not that rare, in
fact,very normal. Feed him in a bucket, if it
drop he can still pick up and eat again.
Horses kept in pasture and graze have better
teeth then horses stalled and fed grain and
hay. A horse does not need to be put down to
float teeth, many years ago, it was very rare
for a horse to get meds to get teeth floated,
if the horse is sacked out and handled
enough, not need for meds. 2: This horse is
old and may have immunities or may be old and
have a lower defense, personal choice, if it
aint hurting him, I would get them but spread
them out every two or three months and don't
shock and over power the system with all of
them at once. 3: Coughing is a Vet questions,
your horse is old, in the wild not to many
horses make it past 10 or 12, not worming, no
vit, no grain, no feet care, no fresh water
in winter, colic, no teeth work, no shots, so
we have made it to where we keep horses alive
longer, but they legs, muscles, joints, body
starts deteriorating, so riding a horse in
later years is very very hard on a horse. You
like it and feel safe, but it can be really
hard on an older horse. If this horse has
given you many years of good rides, lesson
and love, you may want to get another horse
(not a young 3 year old) so you and this
horse can still go out, maybe pony and let
the horse get exercise walking with you and
not being ridden. I see and hear people
riding horses 28 and 30, I just think this is
not good for a horse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: Its sounds like you rode her too much
and too hard too fast. You said she had not
been ridden and then you said I rode her
alot. It would be like you sitting on the
couch all winter and then I drag you out and
make you 20 miles, you would sore, hurting,
not happy and may sit down yourself. What you
did is a good way to get a horse sour to
riding, sour to being with you, sour to
getting saddled, makes them sore so when you
ride them the next day she will buck from
pain and soreness. Treat a horse the way you
would want to be treated. The slow way is the
fast way with horses. I would give her a week
or so off and then SLOWLY get her back in
shape, take short easy rides. It may have
only been a test, but since you did what you
did there is no way of knowing. It could also
be a back injury, it would a pulled muscle or
tendon that was aggravated from a lot of
riding. Approach things from a horse's point
of view. It is not fun him either. You are
looking at this as a horse problem. I see
this as a YOU problem. I see this as you are
not giving clear cues, the horse is confuse,
the horse is not ready, you have not taught
the horse what you want, you have prepared
the horse so he knows what you want, you are
going too fast, you are asking what the horse
cannot give yet, you are pushing too hard or
not pushing hard enough...... as you see, I
think most all horse problems are people
problems. I think this since if a trainer, or
experience horseman or someone can get on a
horse and make the horse better and do things
that another can't, then it always tells me
that the horse can do anything if it is asked
right, taught right and showed right. A horse
knows how to be a horse, too many people try
to fix a horse, try to make a horse better,
try to teach a horse..... if people listened
to a horse and learned from a horse, then
there would be less horse problems. No matter
what you are doing, it is either not working,
the horse is confused, or the horse does not
know what you want or what the right answer
is. It always comes back to you or me or
anyone. Until you see this as a you problem,
YOU can't fix it. Try going back to basic,
get your horse to stop and go when you tell
him, forget where he goes.... once you get
him good at stopping and moving when you tell
him, then work on moving and changing
directions, left and right, stop and starts,
then when he gets good at that, then have him
go to one point and stop. Then go to another
point and stop. If you take a few weeks and
some time, you will get better with your cues
and he will get better understanding what you
want. It is a partnership, not a horse that
you have to constantly correct...???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: Well from your question you sound
like you think a bit stops a horse and you
say the horse runs or walks thru it. This
tells me you are pulling on the bit to try
and stop the horse, this will not work and
will only teach the horse pull, which is what
your horse is doing. Never ever pull on two
reins when stopping a horse, only one rein,
your goal is to get the horse to circle and
bend his head one way, that will slow him,
make him uncomfortable and he will want to
stop, you are trying to use the bit, pain
from the bit to make him stop, that will not
work. Read my horsemanship page so you can
understand how horses think. As for bits, I
don't use any bit and believe that if you
cannot stop a horse in a halter, then you
should not be riding them. A snaffle bit is a
NON leverage bit, when you pull one pound the
horse feels one pound this is better for the
horse, helps you develop feel. A curb bit is
a Leverage bit, it give 3 to 5 pounds of
pressure for every one pound you pull, it is
more painful, it can hurt more with less
pull. A curb bit is for a horse that is neck
reined and is softer. A snaffle is a training
bit that is more forgiving of hard or
inexperienced hands. You are blaming the
horse and the bit for the horse not stopping
or running through a bit..... I say YOU are
the reason this is happening. I assure you I
could ride this horse in a halter and this
horse would stop within 10 to 20 mins. I
would say ride this horse in a halter in a
round pen or small enclosed area so he cannot
run off, teach him to stop with body cues and
not from pain of a bit, then you will not
need a bit to stop him and your confidence
will grow and so will the horse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: I have been working with my stud
and his ground manners are very good. But
when it comes to the saddle pad and the
saddle he freaks out. What can I do to make
this an easier experience for the both of us.
Answer: When you say he freaks out that tells
me you have not prepared him properly. You
need to work on sacking out, that will build
trust and teach you to read him and teach him
that you can put pressure and remove
pressure. Read my horsemanship page and it
will help you understand why your horse does
it does.
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QUESTION: We have a herd of 3 mares and 3
geldings. The last horse on the place is my
14 yr. old Buckskin gelding. At first he
seemed fine at the bottom of the pecking
order but once the alpha mare went onto heat,
he started acting differently. Out of the
blue he attacked my 20 yr. old paint gelding.
He kept biting him and ran him through an
electric fence. My paint ended up in the
middle of a 2 lane highway and thank God he
wasn't hit. Now I have to keep my paint in a
box stall or the outdoor arena or the
Buckskin attacks him. The alpha mare isn't
doing much to protect the paint but she kind
of tries to "boss" the Buckskin around. Can I
ever put the two geldings out together again?
I am concerned for the paint because he is 20
and I don't want him bullied or badly hurt.
What should I do? ANSWER: I say stop trying
to protect horses from horse, this is the
natural order, the older gelding is getting
slower and weaker, so instincts tell the
other horses they have to move. The 20 yr old
tries to hang on and has to make sure the 14
yr old is ready. Once the 20 yr old accepts
this they will stop fighting, you are trying
to prevent something and all you are doing is
making it worse and prolonging it. You do not
have to keep the horse in a box stall you
think you have to. This is nothing but horses
being horses, if the fence was not there,
like in the wild, the horse would have worked
this out and all would be fine, since the
fence was there and since you locked the
horse up, you think you helped and I think
you made it worse. Put the two in a round pen
with no corners and no fence and they will
run, kick, bite and rear and will work it out
and the winner will be higher and the loser
will be lower.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: When something is not working stop
and look at what you are doing. If the horse
is playing with the halter, then it is not
scared of it, so that tells me that you are
trying too hard and not the right way. You
have to get the horse used to you rubbing and
being around his face before you move to
trying to put something on his face. So lots
of rubs, scratches, give carrots with one
hand while the other hand is rubbing ears and
eyes, very short rubs and touches with lots
of RELEASE. You have to stop doing something
before the horse moves or makes you stop,
then slowly do it longer and longer so the
horse learns to expect it, after you do this
a while then add just a rope, do not catch or
try and hold, just rub the rope around the
head, ears and eyes, mouth etc... then after
lots of that then maybe put the rope around
his nose and around his head, then take off
(release) after the horse tells you he is
good with those little steps, then rub the
halter around and let him get used to that,
don't try and put it on, just let him learn
that it will not hurt him, then when the
horse tells you he is ready, you can put it
on...once you get it one don't try and drag
him around and pull him or go too fast.. this
horse needs lots of time to learn and figure
out he is safe with you and with things you
put on him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: Like most horse problems, people
normally cause them. When you get better your
horse gets better. The horse is seven and you
got him at two, that means he has had almost
5 years to figure you out. Horses know what
is going to happen before it happens. This
horse knows you and feels safe with you but
does not see you a strong leader or he would
not do the things he is doing. You need to
look at this as your problem, don't try and
fix the horse, improve yourself, learn and
work on what you are doing wrong, fix that
and the horse issues will go away. This may
sound strange, but I assure it, I have seen a
thousand times. The sooner people fix them
self, their horse gets better. You need to
work on your communication, you leadership
role, your higher position, work on
understand and listening to this horse,
understand why he is doing what he doing and
how you are contributing to what he is doing,
once you find that then you can change what
you are doing and your horse will change. If
you do the same thing, you horse will do the
same thing. People always want their horse to
change but they are not will to accept their
part and change to make it better and easier
for the horse. Read my horsemanship and it
will help you see horses different. I put my
site together so people that wanted to read
and take the time to learn and improve their
knowledge, they could do it for free. So read
my entire site and you will learn things you
never knew about horses and you will them
different, then you will change how you deal
with them and you will see as your grow your
horse gets better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: I am a big anti Tom Thumb bit, here
is a link to a good article on that bit the
explains how bad it is.
http://www.markrashid.com/trouble_with_tom_thumb.htm
The bit is not the issue, you, your hands and
ability is the issue. Since you have been
riding in a TT, you have been relying on the
pain and pressure of the bit so you have not
been concentrating on your hands, you
softness, your horse's responses, so you have
trained yourself to be hard hands,
unconsciously, and you have trained your
horse to ignore you, not pay attention to you
and to only listen if you are rough, cause
pain and hurt him. Bad lessons all around. So
a snaffle or hackamore is a direct rein
device, so you will have less strength, less
pain and less control AT FIRST. But this will
force you to work with your horse, pay
attention to your horse and have better
communication with your horse. People that
use TT tend to be poor horsepeople since they
have relied on this pain device, so they
normally lack confidence and the ability to
control and ride a horse without the cheat of
a pain device. So you will have to commit to
learn and change your old ways of riding and
learn and grow and work with your horse as a
partner and not as you being a ruler. The
fact is you should not be riding any horse
with any bit unless you can ride them in a
halter. Read my site, on my horsemanship page
on riding with one rein and learning to ride
with just a halter, this will make you better
able to change and feel like you have
control, so start in a round pen or small
enclosed area so you can learn to talk to
your horse without pain. Soft hands make soft
horses; hard hands make hard horses
absolutely think this is an handling issue
and human issue. If this person does not like
QH and your horse is a QH, I would say that
is your answer. Anyone that claims to be a
trainer or expert and then groups horses into
breeds is an idiot in my book. A horse is a
horse, period. Some breeds have different
pros and cons, but they are all horses, they
are all prey animals and they are all fear
based and have strong survival instincts. I
can make a horse head shy in about two
minutes, if I hit the horse in the face, hit
with a rope in the face, punch it or do
anything painful to the face, the horse will
learn fast and will move his head anytime
something moves to his face. You can test
this. Give your horse a treat, if it takes it
without shying then give this "expert
trainer" a treat and ask him to give it to
your horse, the horse will tell you if he is
the one making him head shy. Food is a blamed
for many of horse problems, it can have some
influence but rarely enough to create
dramatic changes. Rolled oats are fine for a
horse and they have been eating them for
years, I feed my horse oats. It may give more
energy, it may make them feel stronger, it
may increase their alertness, but so will
just about anything you feed a horse. We feed
good grown, good fertilized and high quality
hay, then we grain them with high energy
grain, then we give vitamin supplements,
maybe some corn oil, beet pulp, rice bran,
corn sweet feed, sugar treats, alfalfa hay
and then lock a horse up in a stall and
wonder why they get excited when we handle
them. Like most horse problems they are
really people problems. Moderation is the
key, not too much of any one thing. More
exercise and turn out time, more ride time,
more handling time will make better horses.
You can make a horse listen no matter what he
eats if the horse sees you as his leader and
you understand horses. So anyone that starts
trying to address horse issues with food,
stalls, equipment, surroundings, just don't
get it. I am in California so not too to
Ohio, sorry. This can be fixed easy with
proper handling and keeping Yahoo's away from
your horse. Don't try and address this head
shy problem and try and fix it. Just be
normal and lots of rubs to head and face so
the horse will learn to enjoy it and will not
associate it with slaps, yanks or hits. This
is based on the facts you provided. If you
see a head shy problem as a head shy problem
and it really is a disrespect issue and the
horse is just showing you that you are not
the boss and that she is not going to let you
touch her head, then this is a different
issue.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All horses are a dream until you ask them to
do something or put pressure on them. Forget
what happen as a colt, it is not important.
Keeping him in a paddock and locked up is the
biggest problem. A horse needs other horses
to feel safe, to learn, to play, to get
scared, to be able to run and play,
especially Geldings. As for him running off
when you get on, you should not be getting on
until you are sure he wont run off. Small
steps, a little at a time, hobble train him
and teach him to tie well with a ROPE HALTER.
Do your first mounts when tied and then when
hobbled in an enclosed area, so if he runs
off he can only go in a circle. You should
not get on until you are sure he will not run
off. So just put a foot in and get off, put
weight on stirrup and get off, stand in
stirrup and get off, lean over saddle and get
off, put a leg over and get off immediately.
You have to show him that he is not trapped
when you get on teach him that you get off
every time you get on, so he learns the right
response is to stand still. Yes, absolutely
put him with the other horses all the time.
They will teach him more in a day than you
can in a year. He needs to learn manners,
respect, move from pressure, pecking order
and many other things. He is going crazy from
being alone. He will get meaner and more
uncontrollable the more you keep him alone.
Let them do the hard lesson so you will not
have to. He will still bite you and
disrespect you if you do not show him you are
higher, but the other horses will make it
clear how he treats higher horses, which will
be you when you two are together. First a
light tom thumb is like saying I saw a light
elephant. The TT bit is one of the worst pain
producing bits out there. Many people think
it is a snaffle and it is not. It is a
leverage bit with a break in the mouth piece,
but most people think since it has a break
that it is a snaffle. If I could get rid of
the worst bits the TT would be one of them. A
twisted wire snaffle is a snaffle but one of
the worst snaffles for pain. It causes it
pain. I don't blame this horse for running,
he wants the rider off and wants the pain to
stop. So it makes perfect sense what he is
doing. I always tell people that if you can't
ride your horse in a halter, then you should
not be riding it in a bit. A halter ensures
you know how to control the horse without
pain, it makes you learn to communicate with
the horse verses make him do things with
pain. I don't use bits, don't promote them
and whenever I work with a horse the first
thing that goes is the bit and then I get to
the other issues, which normally immediately
become less as the bit goes away. Now I know
that any bit can be soft or hard, depending
on who is hold the reins, so the other rider
you talk of may be scared or nervous of the
horse, so her fear causes her to hang on and
pull the bit harder thinking that is how she
can control him, this is a mistake of many
riders, new and old. A bit does not control a
horse, never did and never will, a horse will
run with a broken jaw and bloody lips and
will ignore pain if they think their life is
in danger. Pain = fear = reaction = run that
is the way of the horse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am 46 years old, and have very little horse
experience. I haven't done anything to fix
problem, but try to scold the older horse.
Both horses are male and in a pasture with a
barn.I have a 20 ish year old Tennessee
Walker, have had him 4 or so months. I put in
a 2 year old quarter horse. The Tn Walker
bites and runs the quarter horse, especially
while I am there feeding them, ( in different
troughs ). The quarter ran through a barbed
wire fence that was near a pond and cut up
his face area. His eyes are ok, no major cuts
or damage. Should I not worry or think of
separating them? ANSWER: How long have they
been together? How big is the area? Feed in
the middle of the pasture with different
piles, at least three and at least 20 feet
apart. This is normal herd behavior, the
older one is teaching the young one manners.
Don't separate them, in a few days or a week
they will be buddies. Read my horsemanship
page, it will help you understand what is
going on. You need to educate your self about
horses more so you will understand what and
why they do what they do. This totally
normal. Rick ---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: They have only been together for 4
or 5 days. They are in a several acre
pasture. Why 3 piles and not just 2 piles?
Answer: lol, see there you go wanting a quick
answer and a fast fix, I explain this in
detail on my site. If you understood horses
you would know this. Food is competition, the
lead horse gets to eat first, gets to eat the
best food, gets to drink first, this is how
horses live, if you understood this you would
know how to prevent problems and then would
not have to ask others how to fix problems.
Prevention is better than treatment,
direction is better than correction, knowing
is better than asking. Well for 16 you show
more character than a lot of adults. You need
to be honest and let the buyer know what you
think, if they make a choice to buy the horse
then they accept that this, like any horse,
may or not be prefect and will make mistakes.
Tell people what her good points are, what
her problems are and let them make the
decision. You are not forcing anyone to buy
the horse, so as long as you are honest,
don't worry about what the horse does after
you sell it. Now for the making money part,
this gets my goat, a horse that is a loyal
friend and companion, as given you years of
enjoyment, pleasure and many good rides, for
you to worry about money is offense to me. If
I got rid of my horse, I would much rather
give him away to a good home where I know he
would not be abused or neglect then sell him
for $10,000 to someone that did not care
about him. Selling a horse should not be
about money, it should be about finding a
home for an animal that you own and have
accepted responsibility for many years ago,
just because you sell a horse does not mean
you are released of the responsibility for
the good safe care of the horse. It would be
like if the slaughter house gave me the best
price for my horse I should sell it to
them.... that is not being a good
horseperson. Find your horse a good home and
even if you take a loss, you owe it to your
friend who have given you much over the
years. That is my take,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First, your dream means nothing to the horse.
Your horse wants understanding. You need to
understand horses better. Just from what you
told me your story has been told a 1000
times. Your horse should not be showing any
teeth, this is a severe show of lack of
respect, you need to do ground work, round
penning and teach this horse that you are the
leader, head horse and she must not treat you
like a lower horse. You have not defined the
pecking order she has. Not good. Don't ride
her anymore, you are teaching her to throw
you, every time she does it she finds and
thinks that is the right answer and that is
how she gets release. Read my web site, every
page, you start to see horses different and
it will help get you in a better starting
point. All young horses bite or nip, they are
just testing to see if it ok, don't lecture
him, just bop, swap, smack on the mouth the
second he does it, you can let him nuzzle,
and rub and explore with his nose, but the
second he puts teeth, whack him and move on
forget it, don't carry on and make a bid deal
about it, the correction should never be
longer than the act. As for the other horses,
I would put him in with them immediately, if
may make it harder for you to catch or get
close, but it will be better for him. He will
feel safer and will have a herd to protect
him, then the more time you spend with your
other two, he will see this and will want to
hang out with you since you hang out with his
herd. Keeping him apart is only raising his
insecurity and is confusing him. A lone horse
is the worst thing for a horse........ I
know, I know, but Rick they can sniff each
other and visit over the fence, it is not the
same, it is bad any way you look at it....
get him with his own kind and his herd ASAP.
You will a big change in his confidence, his
sleep, his stress, all good.... yes they may
bite him or chase at first, let it happen and
stay out of it, make sure you feed like a
recommend on my site. Sounds like you are
wearing her out. She is telling you she is
scared, she may have had a bad experience
with ditches or may never have seen one or
crossed one before. For only 3 trail rides
and already at 14 miles, you appear to be
going way too fast. Give this horse a chance
to learn, teach her, don't scare her or fear
her over, start with small ditches, get off
and walk her over them so she can see you
cross first, try and understand her fear and
not just put more pressure on her when she is
scared. If you keep this up she will soon
stop trusting you and only see you as someone
that scares her or does not understand her,
either way you will not have a partnership,
you will be a forceful master and she will be
nothing more than a slave.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Hi Rick. My sister is 12 going on her 5th
year of riding. She recently recieved a
arab/welsh 10 y.o. pony. he is a very willing
partner but he is green. He doesnt stop very
easily when she asks nicely (half halts,
stops with seat). My mother says that the
only way that these two will learn together
is by getting on and just riding. I am afraid
that she will be to harsh on his mouth, (I
recently looked in his mouth and found
minimal gum brusing. So i asume that he has a
realitively strong mouth.) Do you think that
my mother is taking the right route with the
new partnership? (learning by doing?) or
should she be under consistant professional
training? Thank you for your time! A: I can't
help but laugh when I read this. You
obviously are concerned about your sister.
However, no matter what I say will change
anything. You may be right, your concerns
maybe valid, but your sister and your mother
appear to have the decision authority here.
So even if I advise you, what can you do with
it? Your sister is young and does not know
much at 12, your mom is right and wrong, you
mean well and the horse is stuck where it is.
You say that the horse has gum bruising and
you assume he has a strong mouth.... I say
the bit is causing the bruising and your
sister is too rough, does not know how to be
soft and should not be riding with a bit. If
you remove your sister and the bit, I assure
you the horse would not have gum
bruising..... so how can anyone come to the
conclusion that the horse has a strong mouth
and that is what causes the bruising? All
horses are strong, but they can only get gum
bruising from someone pulling the reins and
bit. So your conclusion tells me you don't
really understand horses very well, not to
say you are not trying and you have valid
concerns, but back to the horse, he is stuck
where he is. I guess the short answer is,
your mom is right and wrong and you are right
and wrong and the horse is just a horse. I
would put your sister in a round pen with a
rope halter and lead rope and make her ride
the horse with only a halter and lead rope
(NO bit). This will force her to learn to
communicate with the horse without the
leverage, pain and bit. By teaching her this,
you will help her and the horse and your mom
will be right. The more she rides the better
she will get and the horse will "teach her".
This cannot happen with pain, gum bruising
and bits, it will only happen with time spent
with the horse without pain. In a round pen
the horse can't run off and if it does it
can't go too fast or too far and your sister
will learn how to stop, slow and control a
horse without a pain bit and will will gain
confidence in her riding, seat and
controlling a horse with communication not
pain from a bit. This is a win win for
everyone, you make your sister safer, your
mom gets your sister on the horse riding, and
the horse gets rid of a pain bit... I have a
video on riding with one rein and halter on
youtube and on my site.
Kicking:
Well one thing you can do is tie a ribbon to her tail, I think a red ribbon means a kicking horse, that way it will warn other riders that your horse kicks, don't get too close and for those who don't know it, they will ask what is the red ribbon for and then you tell them. This is not that uncommon of a problem. Spurs will not help and will make it worse, that is just ignorance. If I was teaching you math and gave you question that you had no idea of the answer and I kick you every time you got it wrong, that is what you are doing to a horse with spurs, it does not work, don't let anyone spur your horse. Once you get to be a better rider you will sense the kicks before they happen and will be able to pull her in or disengage her rear end, she cannot kick if you butt if moving away and her head if moving to the gelding. For her perspective, she is only of two mares and is tired of every male sticking their nose up her butt, so she is just defending her honor. Keeping her in a stall is contributing to the problem, put her in pasture with all the geldings, she will get tired of kicking and will learn to deal with them in a herd and not only when you put a saddle on her and make her deal with it. This will make a big difference. Well that would depend on what you did to get her to start this. It is very easy to tell when a horse starts a new behavior when the same owner has had the horse, then it is easy to see that the owner or handler caused it. A horse should not be kicking and obviously your hand smack is not working, so the horse will not stop. The horse is doing this because something caused it to start doing it, whatever that was needs to be known before you can figure out how to fix this, otherwise any fix will only be defeated since the same thing will be done again to cause this, unless you figure out what is causing this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWER: If a horse is a herd never hit (kicked) another horse and if this horse just left when ever another horse kicked at him, that horse would be the lowest horse in the herd. That horse is you. Praise means nothing, leaving means you are weak, not a strong leader and you tell the horse you are higher, and you can move me or make me leave so you are in charge and I will listen to you. Very bad lesson for a horse. You should treating him like he is treating you. You should moving him and making him run or move away. Since you can't bite him or kick him, you have to hit him, either with a rope or your hand. By not smacking him in mouth when he bites you, he is telling you he is higher and you are lower and by you not doing anything you are telling him that you are lower and he is higher. Your other horse will do the same thing in time if you never disciple her. A horse needs a leader and you are not being one. You can get rid of him, but if you care about him then you need to learn how to disciple him and knock the crap out of him if he bites you. A bite is a sign of lack of respect, then comes kicks, then comes rearing and striking out and then comes you get hurt and the horse gets put to sleep for being dangerous. The horse pays for you kindness. It is not fair to the horse. And this is normal horse behavior, all horses do it and it is the way they are. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As always my opinion is based only on what you tell. The trainer that worked with him should be better qualified to give an opinion since she has first hand knowledge. Without seeing the horse, since I would see things different than you, maybe, from your description, I have to say you are pushing too hard and expecting too much. You said the horse make a lot of improvement, that tells me you were doing the right things, now you say he is regressing and going back, that tells me you are not doing the things. The horse is the sole judge of what works and what does not work. I think horse only get sour when people push too hard, too often and too much. It sounds like the horse knows that the ring is work, no fun, does not want to be there and is getting tired of being just pushed in the ring. The horse was not this way before, according to you, so you had to do something to make him this way. You need to figure out what you did to create the problem and then figure out what to do to fix the problem. Your choices seem OK, but I can't see the horse and tell what works and what does not, only you can do that. I would not give up, I would not keep doing what you are doing and I would not be more assertive if the horse is scared. You can take it easy, not work so hard, just spend time with the horse as a herd member/leader and just get to know the horse without asking something from him. You can slow down and do things he is good at and go slower on what you want him to do. Listen to your horse, he will tell you if you listen. Horses are not brats, mean or stubborn. Those are human terms that people want to put on horses. You questions is unclear, you say you have had her for 5 years, did she do this before, when did it start, did you ever ride her in these areas before, you said she did not used to be this bad, does that mean she has always had the problem and got worse. A horse is a reflection of the person handling it. Most people that blame the horse never look at what they are doing to cause the problems. She may not want to go up hills since she feels your fear or she has not done with you. You can try to do ground work in all the areas that appear to be a problem with her, do things she is good at and knows well, build her confidence on the ground in the those areas before you try to ride her. The fact that you told me, you had to get off, tells me that this horse has your number and knows how to work you until you get off. As for the ear infection, you would know better than me it that made it worse or changed things. I always look at the person for the problem first, since that is normally the right answer. Maybe one half percent of all horse problems are from something other than the person.
QUESTION: 47 No horse experience I tied him up this morning, but when tried to untie him he tried to kick, i refused to untie him until he stopped, he stopped and then when i untied him like to ran me over to get to the feed kicking. He is alone right now, he is pasture kept. I want to stop this behavior and I was told he was just hungry and when he gets enough food he will stop this behavior, i really don't believe that. I also have a gelding in the next pasture that charges the fence, ears pinned back and very aggressive to the yearling. I want them to get along, what do I do to stop this behavior without anyone getting hurt. The gelding is 19 years old and was pastured alone for several years. last year i bought two miniature jennys and they are pastured with him. I would like them all to be able to roam both pastures together. ANSWER: When a lower horse kicks a higher horse, the higher horses attacks him and makes him run off. Since your horse is running you over and kicking at you, he thinks you are lower in the pecking order. I agree with the horse. You have told him that you are lower since you allowed him to treat you that way without disciplining him. You have little horse experience and your horse knows it. Not good for you. You better learn fast, since when horses teach lessons to humans they are very costly. Read my horsemanship page twice! Some things will not make sense until you read the entire page. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for someone telling you the horse is just hungry!....... you have to be crazy to believe that or have no clue of how horses think or live. I could not feed my horses for a week and they would not kick me, your horse kicks since it can, since you allow it, since you do not stop it, since you do not make the horse wish he never kicked you..... that is why your horse kicks, if someone thinks it is for food, then it will be for carrots, then will be to be with friends, then it will be not to get ridden, then it will be because you did not pet it right, then it will for ...................get the message... a horse needs to know it kicks for no reason or it knows it kicks for any reason, if you let it. You are in danger. This horse will hurt you if you do not get smart fast. He will not hurt you because he is mean, or dangerous, or aggressive, or untrainable, or because of his past, or because he is hungry..... he will do since he can and you have not taught him that he should not and can not! As for the horses charging each other, this is being done since they are kept alone, they have been taught, by keeping them isolated that is where they are safe and do not want anything new. Too bad, put the horses together and let them work it out.....DONT SAVE THEM, DON'T TRY AND STOP THEM, STAY OUT OF IT... I talk about this on my site about putting lots of food out in many different piles so they will not pay attention to the new member of herd. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: I have this horse it is a gelding its 15 hands tall and probably about 1300 pounds its big.i want my dad to ride but were afraid he is to big he is 6'4" tall and 325 pounds my question is would he break the horse down or hurt it if he kept it in a walk? or should he not ride it?
Answer: Yes I agree, he is too big, a horse should only carry about 20% of its weight, if in shape, that does not mean add a few hundred pounds to get a higher 20%. Most horses today are over weight, 15 hands at 1300 sounds like the horse is over weight. Once you add saddle and other stuff most horses carry 20 to 50 pounds more than what a person weighs. You did not say how old, a horse's back is not fully grown or developed until about 5 years old. Your questions is really way too simple. Way too many factors to consider, but I say no he is too heavy.
Herd Behavior:
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Put them in the herd, it will do everybody good, the herd will be bigger and feel safer, everyone will have a job and you will notice a change and see that they are all better for it. It may take a week or two as much as a month, but stay out of it and let the herd work it out. Hi Jill, I got this questions in the questions pool. This could be from many reasons, but I think it is a simple herd response. Any new herd member will affect the herd and behavior of all members. First there are pecking order issues. since the donkey is smaller and may appear as a young colt, the geldings could be taking it under their wings and protecting it, this would bring out a much stronger leadership role from them. Before the donkey, the herd was set and not major issues so leadership was not that important, now they have a mission, they have a job and they are doing it well. As time goes on it may settle down, but anytime a new baby is introduced to a herd new stronger leaders emerge and they step up to the job of being protectors and leaders... All horses are leaders and all are followers, it all depends who else is around as to which one the horse becomes. |
I noticed in the picture you have nylon
halter, when means you have buckles and metal
and probably a metal snap on your lead rope.
I always suggest getting rid of
all that and get a nice rope halter with a
lead rope with NO snap. This
always seems to calm horses and give much
better control. Even thou control
does not seem to be an issue, it will mean
more and not scare the horse as much when you
correct or say NO.
As for the lips and mouthiness, this could be
from lots of things. Took from
mom early, left on mom too long, insecure,
curiosity, exploring, boredom and
others. My guess is boredom.
I think most mouthy horses are
smarter, they have been handled in a way that
has not discouraged this and now they explore
and are always learning. Some say
the tail chewing is a mineral or vitamin
deficiency, not sure it that is true but make
sure horse has a salt and mineral block
available. If a horse wants it to
stop they will stop him from chewing, however
in a stall or confined area, a horse would
rather let it happen just to have horse
contact so this tends to happen much more in
stall environments.
I did an article on this topic (nipping) and
here is a link to it.
http://www.equestrianlife.com/articles.php?func=view&id=127
I always see more so called problems and
issues when horses are not kept in pasture
with a herd. Putting horses in at
night, separating them create anxiety, which
creates stress, which turns into vices
(chewing, kicking, swaying, cribbing, wind
sucking, etc.) Putting a horse out more,
leaving them with friends and herds, and not
locking them up always seem to help in most
any situation. It is almost like
the cure all and it works more time than not.
If you leave this horse out in in
pasture with a herd for for two weeks, I
would bet you a chewed lead rope that the
behavior would stop are at least get a lot
better.
This horse is still a baby at 3, this will go
away and get less as the horse gets closer to
five. I would not make a big deal
about it.
Let the horse spend time being a horse and
not in a stall and the problem will fix it
self.
Answer: Without seeing the horse no way to tell, but if he is not rolling I would think it is more than just saddle sore. Rolling aligns the spine and helps stretch the back, if he is not rolling, it sounds more than saddle issues. Riding is tough on the back, riding with a bad saddle is even worse, and jumping is the worst, so you are doing just about everything you could to put pressure and hurt the back. I would not do anything until a vet or laser checks out. As for bute, that can be bad since it hides pain and the horse will do things it should not do since it does not feel pain. If you leave horse alone and no bute, it will not do anything that hurts, so you will see how bad it is, if you bute, you may think he is getting better, but he may not be..............................
Well first you say he was neglected by the
last owner and you are trying to get on him
way too fast. You are being a
strong leader, you are not seen as the leader
since the horse will telling you this by
kicking and biting. Just because
this horse is gelded, it does not mean that
he suddenly forgets how to be a
stallion. It can take months or a
year for this change to take
place. You need to treat him like
a horse, it does not matter if he is a stud
or gelding, he gets treated as a lower
horse. You cannot be friends or
nice to this horse until he knows you are the
boss and decides not to push you or test you
or move up over you.
You do this by moving his feet, changing his
direction, stopping him movement and making
sure he knows you move him he does not move
you, he does not bite your kick at you unless
he wants a whole mess of trouble.
Trouble like you attacking his butt, you
making him move that butt away from you to
avoid getting hit with a rope, teaching him
that anytime his butts gets near you, you are
going to hit and get it, then he will not
have time to think about kicking
you. When and if he
tries to bite you, you drive your elbow into
his mouth like you are trying to knock out
his teeth. It will only take once
or twice and the biting will be
done.
The only way you can help this horse is to
push him like a crazy man and make him think
you going to eat him if he messes with you,
once that point is clear then you can slowly
get nicer and kinder and start to build a
relationship, but this horse has to know that
you can and will get busy if he messes with
you. Threats and lite hits or
slaps will only tell this horse you are weak,
you have to let this horse know you are the
boss, you are higher, you can move his feet,
you can make him uncomfortable, you can make
him run and if he wants to be comfortable, he
has to play by your rules. Tough
love is what horses understand, it makes it
clear to them and that is what they do and
that is what they want. He is
being clear with you, he thinks you are
lower, he thinks you are weak, he thinks he
can take you, he thinks he can kick you, he
thinks he can bite you.....he thinks this
since you have not make it clear that he
can't do any of those things.
Young horses always get more bites (lessons) than older ones. Young horses are immature, do not pay attention, want to explore and get into things and have not learned to respect higher horses. This mare is teaching the youngster lessons in paying attention, respecting elders, pay attention to where you are and what I (a higher horse) is telling you. If you don't pay attention this is what you get. This will make it easier for you to train this horse later. It may look worse than it really is. The older he gets the less he get those hard lessons since he will learn to pay attention and listen.
| Ok you say you have 11 years of experience and you are 16. I am going to tell you that your horse experience when you were 5, 7, or 10, is not what I call horse experience. You have horse exposure, but most people don't let kids on horses that will will hurt them, so the horses you have ridden or been with have probably not been problem or difficult horses. I am 48 years old and have many years of experience and there is still more about a horses that I don't know than I do know. To fully understand horses would take a life time of study. Most people who own horses never study them, they feed them, ride them and spend small amounts of time with them. You said your horse is not scared? How do you know? It sounds to me that it is scared. So who is right, the horse is. Only the horse knows what it is feeling, but we can sometime know what they are telling us. I think your horse is scared and does not see you as a strong leader that it trust. So it gets insecure when she is only with you. I always say it is the human's fault and NEVER the horse's fault. Your horse is feeling something and it is up to you to figure it out. The could be scared since it does not see you as a strong leader that it trust, so it wants to take over in order to keep herself safe. |
ANSWER: Well, first I would say get her
with another horse. Just because
she can see a horse, that does not give her a
sense of security. She needs to
be with another horse so she can learn not to
rear, learn some horse manners and be able to
replace the loss of her mom. She
is nervous, scared and alone. You
say you have horse experience, but you are
trying to use pain and control on a young
horse that does not know anything.
First I would say read more about
horses so you understand their fear response
and action. You are going to
spoil this nice filly, not on purpose, but
from not dealing with this horse as a horse.
You are still thinking like a
person and not like a horse.
This horse needs to learn that when something
is on her nose or head, it will NOT hurt her.
You are trying to over power and
control this horse. You should be
trying to talk to her in horse so she can
understand you and trying to communicate and
convince her to cooperate with you and that
you will not hurt. You have
failed to do this and now the little one is
scared and does not trust you and is more
worried about being hurt and trapped than in
seeing you as a herd member and leader.
Read my horsemanship page on my site about
herd behavior, if you read the entire page
you will start to see horses different than
you do now. As I tell most
people, this is not a horse problem it is a
people (you) problem. So you are
asking for help, but you have to take the
time to educate yourself about the horse, how
they think, and how they react and why they
react. They are prey animals and
we are predators, this is the most
unnaturally combination that could
exist.
The best gift you can give a horse is
knowledge and understanding about the
horse.
|
Your welcome, not blaming the
horse is the first step in accepting
responsibility. It is a
mindset that makes you improve
yourself and then your horse gets
better. So your horse did
not knock you down, you were in his
way, you did not give him a better
escape path, you did teach him to
know run into or over you, you did
see that he was getting scared and
was not able to move out of his way,
you were not paying close enough
attention, you allowed the situation
to develop with that outcome,.......
:) get it...
The was was just where
you put him, when you put him there
and was only there because of you, it
was never his choice.
|
ANSWER: You are trying to treat him as if you feel sorry for him and as if you can make up for the bad that has happened to him. Forget that, treat him like a horse. You are causing this behavior. Accept that. You can change it and help this horse, but you have to understand horses and understand herd behavior. Horses see the world as horses and herds, you and this horse is a herd of two. In a herd you are either higher or lower. You are lower, you have told this horse you are lower, you act like you are lower and you let the horse treat you as if you are lower. So you are causing this behavior. Read my horsemanship page, you will see horses differently and will understand them better. This horse is lost and is asking for a leader, be that leader. A horse feels safer and better if he has a strong leader that gives him good direction and makes the rules clear. That don't mean you have to be mean or aggressive, but you do have to understand horses so you can talk to this horse in his language. You are talking human and the horse is confused. The stress you are feeling the horse is feeling 10 times worse. You have to be confident and aware, not strong as 40 year old. If you do it right you will not need much strength or power, you need to use your brain to learn so you can talk horse and communicate with this horse in a way he can understand and feel safe.
ANSWER: Well there are always things you
can do, it is if you are willing or able to.
This horse has a troubled past,
all race horses and most sport horses don't
have very good lives. They are
not owned or cared about for anything other
then to win and or make money. It
sounds like he found a great home and you
given him a much better life than he would
have had. If he kept alone, then
I would get him a buddy. A horse
needs other horses to feel safe, they all get
very insecure when alone. So all
horses are what people call Buddy sour or
herd bound, it is their instinct so they can
stay alive and feel safe. If he
does not have another horse to play with, to
sleep with, to graze with, to feel safe with,
this only increases his drive to get to
another horse. So that is one
thing. Another option is to get a
pony horse, take a second horse with you so
he will have a buddy with him, once he gets
good at that, then you slowly wean him off
slowly.
I think too many people try and prevent or
stop too much. Horses are smart
and they can figure things out if people let
them and help them. The more you
try and stop him and prevent him the more he
feels trapped, restricted, and unable to
move. Horses rarely rear unless
someone is restricting their movement,
pulling on their mouth or head.
Horses normally always pick to
run if they can.
Look at this not has you have to try and
prevent this. If he wants to see
horses, lets go see them, let him release
that energy, let him satisfy his strong
instinctual drive and go see the horses, then
once he gets there he goes to work, not mean
or mad, just work, he has to back up, flex,
go in circles, change directions, anything to
keep him busy and paying attention to you.
Every time he is with other
horse, no problem but you and him get to do
lots of training and work, he may get to trot
around the horses, he may get to follow them
in reverse, he walks backwards to be with
them while they walk forward, you want him to
think, damn when I am with other horses, I
get my butt worked off, soon he will think,
it is easier to be away from horse so I can
relax and not work so hard. This
will not happen after once or twice, it will
take consistency on your part.
Doing the same thing all the time
so the horse Knows what to expect and has a
choice.
I think you, like many others, are so caught
up in controlling him, making him listen,
showing him who is boss, that you are making
this a fight in stead of using the horse's
natural drive and figuring out a way to use
that drive to help train the horse.
You have a natural draw that you
horse wants, figure out ways to use that to
work your horse and make you both better and
stop focusing on how to stop that drive.
He is just being a horse, work
with this as your problem and not the
horse's. You are smarter, this
horse has already taught you many lessons
about horses and you have learned well, but
don't stop. He is making you try
and learn different ways to handle a
problems, embrace this as he is helping you
get better, The horse is always the teacher,
too many forget that and they thing they are
the teacher or trainer.
Hope this helps,
Read my site, and remember when you walk to
pasture, don't just focus on the gate or your
destination, don't walk a straight line, play
with your horse on the way, give a treat,
have him backup, spin him, disengage his
hindquarters, give him something to think
about it instead of the gate, have him paying
attention to you and not the gate, show him
you are a strong and confident leader and he
will not want to get to the gate so fast, he
will feel safe and will want to be with you.
You cannot feel safe if you are
scared or intimidated. You feel
this since you don't know and don't
understand, read and learn, this will go
away. Knowledge is power.
| This sounds like an
adjustment period. He has
lost an old friend and now a new
younger herd member is there.
He will snap out of it and
will soon be with the herd.
You can try and stimulate
the herd by driving a car, tractor of
other vehicle around them and just move
them a bit, they will think they are
being chased and will run as a herd and
will all get closer. All
herd gets closer when there are
threats. So scaring them a
bit will cause them to run together,
but letting them work it out is best.
They will come together
once the pecking order is defined and
set, this may take a few weeks. Don't separate them, horses always do better as a herd and are much worse off when alone or separated. Let the herd work it out, in a few months you will see one herd with new relationships. Hang in there. |
ANSWER: As usual, this is a people created
problem and not a horse issue.
These horses are doing what
horses do, they push lower horses, they try
and establish dominance so they can be higher
in the pecking order. The herd
has to have a strict pecking order to ensure
the survival of the herd. Only
the strongest horse can be leader, so horse
have to test each other to see who is higher
and who is longer. Totally
normal. However, when people put
up fences, hot wires, gates, and dividers,
trying to protect the horse and to feel like
they are keeping their horse safe, they make
it worse. A horse does best and
feels best when he is in a herd.
All horses bite and all get bit,
all kick and all get kicked, it is the way of
the horse.
Understanding herd behavior will help you and
your horse, since a horse does the same
things to people since the horse sees their
world as a herd and you are either higher or
lower in the herd.
I go into this subject in more detail on my
horsemanship page of my site.
I still think the aggression is caused by
us getting involved. I never
rescue a horse from a herd. The
horse needs to learn to show respect and to
treat the higher horses correctly, per the
herd. This gelding is probably
more aggressive since the he thinks this mare
is his and all horse get more aggressive when
new horses are introduced since they do not
want to move down in the pecking order and
there are benefits to being higher.
The fact that this gelding cannot
correct the other gelding and cannot push
him, make his show respect and since the
other gelding feels safe and does not run
away, he is showing disrespect to the higher
caged horse, so this increases the
aggression. One horse feels safe
and show disrespect and the other horses
can't correct him and is trapped so once
again I say "we, people cause this to be a
bigger deal and make it worse by trying to
protect or help" Horses have
survived for thousands of years without your
help or my help, but then we, being the know
it all humans, want to think we can do it
better and we need to help and we need to
protect, and we need to get involved.
We don't and when we do, the
horse has to pay for our meddling and it is
worse on the horse, so what do we (you) do,
you get more involved and try to help more by
putting up hot wires and bigger fences, so
the aggression gets worse and more intense
and continues because it is never settled, it
is never worked out and somehow, we want to
blame the horse for being "mean or really
aggressive". IT IS NEVER THE HORSES FAULT.
So put up hot wires, put up
bigger fences and protect this horse and when
one day the two horses meet or one gets out
and one or both horses get hurt or has to be
put down, know that it will be your fault for
trying to protect them.
Somehow I think you are going to do what you
want to do and no matter what I say is going
to change things. So I am somehow
confused as to what you are looking for.
I gave you my advice and opinion,
I gave a reference page and told you what I
think is the problem.
I am trying to be the voice of the horse and
you want to tell me you have never seen such
an aggressive horse. I know
horses pretty well and I think these horses
are the way they are because of people
sticking their nose in the natural order of
herds and trying to protect things that do
much better without human interference.
I stand by my take on this
situation and my suggestion stands, put the
horses out in a pasture, let them work it out
and it will be done and over in a few days
and they will all be buds and will be one
structured safe, close herd.
ANSWER: You need to be careful walking
this pony, if he is nipping at your knees he
is showing you dominance. He will
get away from you and run away and may get
hit by a car. This horse knows
that you do not know anything horses so he is
testing you and figuring out. I
keep a safe distance from him, ever time he
gets away with a bite, a head toss, a pull,
buck or rear, he will shortly be kicking and
he will kick you hard and could hurt you very
badly even if he is small.
If you really want to understand horses, read
my site, it will help.
Well you have a few options.
You can ring a bell every time
you feed and the horses will learn to come
running when they hear the bell or feed pan
banging or whatever else you want to use.
Then you can either put some food
in one stall and then lock the lead mare in
while the others eat.
I would just teach them not to fight.
They only fight for competition
over the food. If the herd is
established, been together for more than a
month or two, then just put out food near the
stalls in different piles at least two horse
lengths apart. If you have 3
horses, put out five or six piles, if you
have 4 horse put our 7 or 8 piles.
This will get less over time, but
at first you want to have lots of piles so
they can all get pushed off and will have
another pile to go to. That way
there is no reason to fight for only one or
two piles. So after a week or so
of this they will get tired of chasing each
other off and will know that all piles are
the same so no reason to push. As
time goes by, each week, go down one pile
until you have the same number of piles as
horses. The fewer piles the more
apart they need to be, after they adjust to
one pile each, then you can slowly move them
closer and soon you will see them share.
The more secure the horse is with
their position, the less they will need to
push each other off to prove their pecking
order. It will take time, but
don't RUSH it or it will take longer and will
get worse.
Food is the number one reason horses fight,
so as long as they become secure with the
herd, they will not see the need to fight.
If two horses don't get along,
they will stay away from each other as long
as they know they have a pile to go to.
If you put food in both stalls,
they should learn to eat in one stall, maybe
the head mare will push at first but it will
get easier as they get to know each
other.
Give them time to herd up and become buddies
before you try and get them to share food.
The slow way is the fast way with
horses.Well you want a horse and a horse
wants other horses. Keeping this
horse by itself will make her act out,
develop bad habits and can make her mean to
people.
If you can afford one horse then you should
not have a horse or keep it with
other horses. You will have
continued problems with her keeping her
alone. You have already seen this
develop in just four months, in a year it
will be much worse.
You say the horses are mean at the other
place, this tells me you do not understand
horses very well. Horses are not
mean, people are mean and make horses mean.
Horses are herd animals not
solitary pets. If you really
understand horses you would never have got a
baby and planned on keeping it alone.
Some may tell you to get a goat, get a cat or
some other animal, a horse needs another
horse, they need a herd to feel safe or it
creates many problems, you are seeing just a
few.
The problem is you, since you ride her
then you are causing this. Horses
only have problems when people create them.
You need to pay more attention to
what you are doing. What is
happening when she does this. Are
you pulling on the bit are you trying to make
do something she does not want to do, is it
the same thing, is the same area.
This sounds like she is sour about you riding
her too hear or too fast, a common problem
with show or competing horses.
Ground work may help but only if you change,
you can't expect your horse to change if you
keep doing the same thing.
Read my site about round penning and sacking
out, both will increase your horse's respect,
if you do it right.
Well I like your last
questions "what am I doing wrong".
I am a firm believer that most
horse problems are our problems and not the
horse. Here is what you said,
recently bought, working with horse, have him
step out of my space, move his hindquarters,
step to side, consistently backing him out of
my space, he gives ugly face, hard to buddy
up, he has lousy attitude "towards me", I
drive him away..... This is from
a one paragraph email and if I was this horse
I would not want to be around you either.
I see and hear a lot of things
here and mostly with you.
You appear to be good at being a pushy
leader, you know how to push a horse around
good, you know how to show a horse you won't
be weak, but I don't think you know how to
listen to horse. Anyone can push
a horse around it does not take much
horsemanship, but it takes work and
understanding to be flexible enough to
listen, to try and help the horse find the
right answer and not force or make the horse
obey and be a slave. A horse pins
his ears for other reasons than to be
disrespectful, they can do it when scared or
backed in a corner or feel they are about to
pushed or bullied.
This horse is only four, he is still a baby
in my book, even thought he is big strong and
can kill you, he is still a baby mentally.
You don't know his entire
history, how he was treated, mistreated or
abandoned. So from the horse's
view here is what I think he sees.
Great another human that wants to
push me around, I get taken to a new place
with new and unfamiliar surroundings, I get
taken from my friends and comfort, I am
ripped away from where I felt safe and now in
the strange place with strange surroundings,
I get this human that acts like she wants to
be my friend but all she does is come in push
me around, tell me I have a lousy attitude
and acts like a leader that is not confident
or secure since she is always SHOWING me she
can push me around???? So why
should I trust her, why should I believe her,
why should I follow her and put my like in
her hands?
There is a saying that goes "A good horseman
can hear a horse talk, a great horseman can
hear a horse whisper, but a bad horseman
can't hear a horse even if it screams."
Not saying you are bad, just think you need
to back away from all the DVDs, clinics,
books and people that say, "Show them who is
boss", "make him respect your space"... and
all the other advice from those who don't
know or really understand a horse.
A horse is a reflection of the owner, look at
the way you act around this horse and see if
you are type of person you would want to be
around if you were a horse. Try
listening and understanding where this horse
is coming from, why he does what he does,
what are you doing to cause him to do what he
is doing, what you can do to help find the
right answer. You are old enough
to advance and grow in your horsemanship past
the beginner stage of pushing a horse
around.
This horse is giving you an opportunity to
grow, he is trying to teach the way of the
horse, he will help understand better and
grow, if you step back and listen and become
the student and not the teacher.
Cut him some slack and you might be surprised
how fast he comes around. Spend
time with him, show him that you can be
around him and with him without pushing or
requiring things from him, build a
relationship of trust and partnership and not
of owner or boss and employee.
Only you can change what you are
doing, if you do the horse will as
well.
Rick
All the issues you talked about are
normal, she is used to be ridden in open
lands without all this scary stuff going on.
I think you are trying to handle
it wrong with MAKING HER STAND, this shows me
that you do not understand a horse.
A horse's worst fear is to be
trapped and unable to run since running is
how they stay alive, so this horse is being
normal. She is bucking since you
are probably hurting her when you MAKE her
stand and stop her feet from moving.
You are getting scared and
insecure since you are seeing her fear
increase, because of you. Forget that you
rode many years ago that means nothing to me
or the horse. The horse does not
care how good you are, how many medals you
may have won, a horse wants to feel safe with
you and see you as a strong and capable
leader. If you are pulling on the
reins, MAKING the horse stand when she is
scared only makes her not trust you, makes
her think you do not know much about a horse
and makes her not want to be with you.
You don't want her to run since
you are scared. Stop trying to
MAKE her deal with her fear and start helping
her deal with it. Show her it is
ok to be scared and you will help her and not
hurt her, and not force her or
MAKE her do anything. I would say
you are more scared than you were in your
younger years and are more careful and are
more nervous about getting hurt, your horse
reads all this and reacts to it.
When you deal with your fear
better, your horse will deal with her's
better.
As for you comment about if you return the
horse it will end up at the abattoir, this
sounds very selfish and is does show a
favorable side of you. You say
you have come attached to the horse and then
say you know it will be killed if you give it
back and then say YOU WANT a pony you can
ride and not just a pet. So let
me get this right, as long as the horse lets
you scare the crap out of it by forcing next
to fast and dangerous traffic, then you will
keep it, otherwise you send back to someone
you know will kill it.
Welcome to the world of horses, people use
them, take from them and when they don't do
everything just how we want, we get rid of
them. I would rather see you take
the horse to open land and let her free and
let it take her chances with the wild animals
than sentence her to a sure death by
returning her. Who knows, by setting her free
maybe someone will find her who loves horses,
loves their beauty and will take care of her
just for joy of sharing with them and having
them in their life.
Well, you got me. I have never
seen this or heard of this.
Without knowing more about the
herd dynamics it is hard to say.
I have seen stallions kill babies
or another stallion, I have seen mares
severely discipline young horses, but not
seen a young mare try and take out a gelding.
I was not there but are you sure
it was not playful? Another thing
could be she thought he was in pain and
dying, so she was trying to end it for him.
No one knows for sure how deep
horses think. Horses in the wild
will sometime towards a pack of wolves if
they are injured or dying almost as it to say
end it fast.
Not knowing the condition of your gelding,
the relationship with the herd, maybe this
mare was not trying to kill him and was just
trying to move up in the pecking order.
We can only guess, but I would have to go
with my gut and say that keeping them apart
and them together is a factor.
This messes up the herd dynamics
and don't allow things to get settled, worked
out and established. I find it
hard to believe that by the time you saw
this, reacted, ran out to pasture and got to
your gelding that if she wanted him dead, he
would be dead, but I was not there.
So that is my take, sorry I could not be more
specific.
Without seeing you I can't be for sure.
But your horse is telling you
that you are not communicating right, that
you are not sending clear signals, that he
does not understand what you want, that he
does not see you as his leader.
Round penning does not make friends, it
teaches a horse to hear you, to learn what
you are asking, to understand that you can
move his feet, you can stop his feet and you
and control his direction and speed.
It seems the horse has taught you
these lessons.
Release is the key to teaching horses.
I discuss this in my round
penning section on my horsemanship page of my
web site. Read that and it should
clear things up, if you still don't
understand after you read that, write me
back.
ANSWER: Horses are very protective of their herd. She sees you as her herd member and is protecting you and telling other horses that you belong to her. This can be bad, since if she sees you as lower than her she will start telling you what to do and if you don't listen she will treat you as her herd member.
Well it depends. Right with
horses is very subjective. Most
people, including me, keep their horses a
little more padded. Too much
weight is bad for the horse, bad for legs and
feet, but unfed horses are not good either.
I would say it is a lot like
people, being a little thin is better than
being a little over weight. I do not like
seeing ribs, I like to be able to at least
feel and find ribs, some horse are so fat I
can't find a rib. So there is a
happy medium.
As for this guy, I think he if full of horse
pucky. Unless she is being worked
very hard she should not be losing weight
unless she is not getting good food.
I know lots of jerks that will
take good hay and feed crap hay to cut their
cost. So if you provide hay, she
may be fed other junk. That is
why I don't letter people feed or handle my
horses. Your horse is your
responsibility. You put the horse
there, you allowed someone else to care for
it and you let your horse be neglected, since
I think this horse is definitely being
neglected. I know all the
reasons, you are busy, you are unable, you
could not help it, you have kids, you have a
job, none that mean crap to your horse that
is not being fed. Horses will eat
their own crap if they are not fed.
So the sniffing means she is
probably already doing this since she is so
hungry and unfed.
Get your horse out, report this guy to the
local law enforcement for abuse, and post to
note at the local feed stores that this guy
is a cheat and does not feed horses at his
place.
Back to your horse, if you don't let other
care for your horse, you would not have any
of these problems, but problems for you is
not my concern, your horse has to pay for
your mistakes. Make it right.
I get a lot of this questions.
I can't fix a horse over the
email and don't want you to think I can, only
your or your daughter or someone handling the
horse can show it what it can and cannot do.
Beating the horse after it
happens does nothing. Prevention
is better than treatment. If you
are there when something happens, and can
correct the horse within 3 seconds of it
happening then correct away, anything after 3
seconds the horse just learns to dislike
people and may get mean. This
horse is just being a horse. I
just answered another questions about this so
I am going to paste the answer so you can
read it.
Previous answer. You are doing
ground work and making the horse respect you
may or may not help your daughter.
I would lean more to
will not help enough. If horses
are handled more by good leaders and by
people that understand horses, then they
become less resistance to all people.
However, if they are handled more
by kids, not strong leaders or people that
don't understand horses, then they tend to
not respect all people and will test and push
people more.
I get questions from parents a lot and I tell
them mostly the same, since you are asked the
question and you are doing research and you
are trying to improve your knowledge, that
means nothing to the horse when the child is
handling her.
So anytime you can get a horse more in tune
to respect you, then he MAY be less likely to
test your daughter. But, since he
already knows your daughter is weak (to her)
I think she will continue to disrespect her
and push her.
I am reluctant to tell parents to make their
kid learn. Horses are something
that should be fun, when medals, awards,
ribbons and speed or time is involved, the
horse and child loses.
You can make your daughter read books about
horses, try and educate her about horses.
You can make up some test to give
her from what you have learned. I
see too many kids being mean to horses
because their parents told me to "show the
horse who is boss". The horse
knows she is stronger and can push your D
around. You can only change this
if you handle the horse more, are with your
daughter all the time (hard to do) so you can
correct the horse if is disrespectful to your
daughter. Older horses will
protect and keep higher horses away from the
weak or younger horses in a herd, but they
are there all the time so it works.
I have seen kids that get it, they understand
horses without being mean, they simply push
and move the horse every time the horse
pushes them, but they are consistent and do
it all the time so the horse stops testing
and stops pushing so much.
Consistency with kids is not
always easy, they get distracted easy, they
just want to relax, have fun and not be so
worried, like adults.
I would have your daughter read books while
sitting with the horse, spend time with the
horse, the more time she spends with the
horse, since this horse is the lead mare, she
may take her under her wing and see her as
her herd and not want to push her so much,
the flip side to this is the horse will
expect your D to listen to her so she may
correct her like another horses, with a bite
or kick.
This can be a dangerous situation, since your
D knows this horse will kick she needs to be
away and make sure she always has an escape
and distance from the horse. If
she acts too scared the horse will see this
as weakness and will exploit it.
Any time the horse shows any
signs of ear pinning, kicks, or bites with
you there, you need to make this horse think
it just committed suicide, any disrespect to
your child needs to be addressed immediately,
not 5 mins later or not after your child
leaves, tells you and then you go out and
give it a lesson, if you can't correct it
within 3 seconds, it is too late and will not
train the horse and will only make the horse
fear you and people and may make the horse
more aggressive towards people.
So your situation is not unique, but there is
not an easy answer either. Read
my site and try to really understand horses
better and then see if you can come up with
ways pass this on to your D, have her do
exercises with the horse, in order to teach
her, you must first know the
subject.
Don't blame the horse for anything, it is only being a horse, it lives in your world and is trying to figure out the rules and when it doubt it will do what horses do. In your photo I think I see that you are using a leverage bit. This is painful and hurts the horse, it will not teach respect and will teach the horse pain and more resistance. If your daughter can't ride this horse in a halter, then she should not be riding it. No spurs and no leverage bits for kids, it only pisses the horse off and gets kids hurt.
So I would keep your daughter away from
the horse's feet. You did not
tell how old your daughter is so that would
matter. Just because you say your
daughter is a competent rider does not mean
she understands horses, does not mean she
understand around respect, fear, pressure,
release, advance, retreat, pushing back, what
a horse test is, why horses test, what to do
to get the horse's trust and respect...
I know lots and lots of people,
older adults, that have "ridden their entire
life" and "owned horses their entire life"
and they can no more answer these or know
this either, but they will be the first to
tell you how to fix things and how to handler
things.
Knowledge and understanding of the horse will
help you and keep you safer than than $10,000
worth of the best and fanciest equipment and
all the advice in the world from the best so
called trainers, clinicians or "life long
horse owners".
Read and study the horse so you have the
knowledge to fix this. Selling
and buying horses cost more than the expense
and time. It is bad for horses,
it is bad for you and you will NEVER get what
you are told, since all you get is a horse,
after that, you teach the horse bad or good.
So I could give you the best
horse in world and in a few weeks or a month,
you or your daughter could teach it to kick,
be disrespectful, buck, run off, pull, or you
could teach it to continue to be the best
horse in world. The horse you buy
is not the issue, what you do with a horse
teaches and trains a horse.
It sounds like you are doing some right things. The answer to your question yes and no. You doing ground work and making the horse respect you may or may not help your daughter. I would lean more to will not help enough. If horses are handled more by good leaders and by people that understand horses, then they become less resistance to all people. However, if they are handled more by kids, not strong leaders or people that don't understand horses, then they tend to not respect all people and will test and push people more.
I get questions from parents a lot and I tell
them mostly the same, since you are asked the
question and you are doing research and you
are trying to improve your knowledge, that
means nothing to the horse when the child is
handling her.
So anytime you can get a horse more in tune
to respect you, then he MAY be less likely to
test your daughter. But, since he
already knows your daughter is weak (to her)
I think she will continue to disrespect her
and push her.
I am reluctant to tell parents to make their
kid learn. Horses are something
that should be fun, when medals, awards,
ribbons and speed or time is involved, the
horse and child loses.
You can make your daughter read books about
horses, try and educate her about horses.
You can make up some test to give
her from what you have learned. I
see too many kids being mean to horses
because their parents told me to "show the
horse who is boss". The horse
knows she is stronger and can push your D
around. You can only change this
if you handle the horse more, are with your
daughter all the time (hard to do) so you can
correct the horse if is disrespectful to your
daughter. Older horses will
protect and keep higher horses away from the
weak or younger horses in a herd, but they
are there all the time so it works.
I have seen kids that get it, they understand
horses without being mean, they simply push
and move the horse every time the horse
pushes them, but they are consistent and do
it all the time so the horse stops testing
and stops pushing so much.
Consistency with kids is not
always easy, they get distracted easy, they
just want to relax, have fun and not be so
worried, like adults.
I would have your D read books while sitting
with the horse, spend time with the horse,
the more time she spends with the horse,
since this horse is the lead mare, she may
take her under her wing and see her as her
herd and not want to push her so much, the
flip side to this is the horse will expect
your D to listen to her so she may correct
her like another horses, with a bite or
kick.
This can be a dangerous situation, since your
D knows this horse will kick she needs to be
away and make sure she always has an escape
and distance from the horse. If
she acts too scared the horse will see this
as weakness and will exploit it.
Any time the horse shows any
signs of ear pinning, kicks, or bites with
you there, you need to make this horse think
it just committed suicide, any disrespect to
your child needs to be addressed immediately,
not 5 mins later or not after your child
leaves, tells you and then you go out and
give it a lesson, if you can't correct it
within 3 seconds, it is too late and will not
train the horse and will only make the horse
fear you and people and may make the horse
more aggressive towards people.
So your situation is not unique, but there is
not an easy answer either. Read
my site and try to really understand horses
better and then see if you can come up with
ways pass this on to your D, have her do
exercises with the horse, in order to teach
her, you must first know the
subject.
Don't blame the horse for anything, it is only being a horse, it lives in your world and is trying to figure out the rules and when it doubt it will do what horses do. In your photo I think I see that you are using a leverage bit. This is painful and hurts the horse, it will not teach respect and will teach the horse pain and more resistance. If your daughter can't ride this horse in a halter, then she should not be riding it. No spurs and no leverage bits for kids, it only pisses the horse off and gets kids hurt.
Horses normally don't trust sexes, they
either trust or don't trust people.
I have worked with many horses
that I have been told they do not like men,
but they had no problem with me.
A horse has a keen sense for
reading people, so they size people up.
Men tend to be a little more
direct and aggressive or assertive.
Women tend to be more passive,
soft and slow, a fearful horse will normally
be more fearful of direct or assertive
people. A good horseman can tone
this down or turn it up. It is
not a horse problem, it is a people
problem.
If you just feed a horse he will not respect
you or see you as his leader. You
have to require things from a horse to get
them to respect you. So move
them, make them move, make them see you as a
leader who can move them, otherwise they move
you, they run from you, they learn you cannot
stop them, you cannot control their
direction, speed, or stop them, so they think
they are smarter and they should be leader
and they should not submit to your leadership
or direction.
I have a section on my web site about horses that have not been handled. Lots of pressure and release (advance and retreat) you can keep him enclosed for a week or so, but if he was with other horses he will be nervous and it may be better to let him in the herd for a couple of weeks so he can feel safe at his new place. Don't baby him and try to be too slow and careful. Be normal and lots of pressure and release. The most important thing for new young ones are sacking out, get him to handle his fear. You said he is colt, if he is not gelded that should happen by three or so, I like to wait longer some do early, the longer you wait the better I think. Reading my site will help you understand horses better, lots of handling will help later, don't baby him and let him push you, pin his ears, kick or bite, he has to be taught that any behavior like that is bad and will get him pushed hard so he better not do it.
Well without seeing this first hand, it is
hard to tell for sure. It may be
a slight resistance showing in the ears, she
may not like to trot and shows this with her
ears. If it not progressing to
anything more serious, it may go away with
time. Not sure if she does this
while on a lunge line, but you could try and
round pen her, change her speed and direction
until she really looks to you for relief.
She will look and ask if she will
ask to stop and when she does her ears will
go forward to you, timing is important, so
stop and release immediately the second her
ears go forward, no pressure, once you get
her to associate ears forward with release,
then you can work on how long her ears are
forward before she gets release.
Again not knowing everything, ears back is
common sign of being sour and not enjoying
her job. Too much work and not
enough play and relaxing time together can
cause this, and I always get defensive
responses when I say this, but if you are not
doing this then don't worry about, but
remember just because you or someone else
thinks it is not too much, the horse is the
one that determines this, not people.
Just something else to
consider.
The other thing is maybe joint pain, other
pain or saddle issues. I always
try and provoke the response so I can see if
I can create it so then I can figure out how
to stop it. When I am told,
something happens and I don't know why, I
don't believe this. Something
causes this response, you, the trot, pain,
sourness, respect issues, something, until
you determine what causes it, it is hard to
fix.
I would trot her on line, off line, towards
me, with a tight rein, loose rein, no leg,
lots of leg, small circles, large circles,
straight, slow trot, fast trot, leaning back,
leaning forward, do everything you can to
change the trot, NOT all at once or in one
day, just explore ways to see if you cause
this response, then it may give you a better
way to deal with it.
As I said before this is about the horse feeling safe and secure with you and seeing you as a strong leader. Only you change this. You need to really understand a horse to change it. You can guess at it, you can't try, you can't have someone else do it, you have study horses, understand them, know how they think, how they act, what they respond to and what they fear. Once you understand all that you can show the horse you understand them, you can talk to the horse in their language, they will know you understand them and that you are the leader and they will trust you and see you as the leader. When all this happens most all other problems go away. But all of this is about you. Your horse is only a horse. But until you really understand what a horse is all about, you cannot address any problem. So read my horsemanship page and my horseman tips page, it will help you see horses differently and that will be the first step in fixing what you are doing so the problem will go away. That is the problem of her behavior when you are handling her. As for the being alone part, let her be with other horses as much as you can. The more she is with other horses, the less she will be acting out to get to other horses.
| I get this question a
hundred times a year. Only
you can fix this with you and only your
son can fix it with him. A
horse needs a strong leader, he needs
to know his boundaries and know who is
alpha, this is a very strong instinct
with horses. Your trainer
is right in one way, but I don't agree
with him completely. The
herd dynamic has little to do with you
or your son. When your
horse is with you, you and your horse
is a herd of two. So no
matter how horses are in a herd of
horses, when you take him out, it is
now just you and him. So
you are the problem, you need to give
this horse better direction, you need
to understand horses better so you can
help this horse. This is
NOT bad or acting out, or being mean,
he is being a totally normal horse.
You are causing this
behavior by confusing your horse, not
making the rules clear, not being a
strong and clear leader and not giving
this horse good, consistent, clear
direction, so he gets confused and
thinks he has to take over, so he does.
He treats you like a lower
horse in his herd since you act like a
lower horse. He is only
being a horse with strong instincts to
either be led or to follow.
If you lead he will follow,
if you allow him to lead he will lead.
I tell people this all the
time. Read my web site,
maybe it will take you a while, maybe 4
or 5 hours, not in one day but read it,
you will see horses differently after
you read it. You will
understand them better.
Read other books, learn and
study the horse, they are complex and
very unique animals that most horse
owners never see. This
horse is looking for a leader and you
are not it and he knows it, so he
thinks he has to move up and pick up
the slack since when he is with you,
you are unsure, not specific, not clear
with you directions, not clear with
when you ask something there is only
one right answer. You are
trying to be nice and loving and
caring, horses don't care about that,
they want a good strong leader, that is
whey makes them feel safe, that is what
makes them want to be with you,
anything else is weak and confusing to
a horse. As for your herd situation, I would absolutely put your mare back in a herd. Horses play, correct, train, release stress and many others things in a herd. Without a herd, horses act out and get confused and question their position and existence. Put horses together every chance you get. All geldings just want to play, with a mare they have purpose, they will push and fight to be better, to be a leader to be the one that impresses the mare and will want to be seen as a leader, as strong, it makes them better. |
What you are describing does not make
sense. I don't know you or the
horse, but I never assume it is the horse's
fault, so I normally address the problem as
it is owner created. This sounds
like dominant and fear related behavior.
So without seeing it, it is hard
to diagnose. I would make sure
his ears and eyes are good, lots of strange
behavior happens when a horse start losing
sight since they are confused and scared, so
they can get more aggressive.
Since you say he is doing this to
other horses as well as people, it leads me
to believe it is physical and not handling.
However, even if it is physical,
if he felt safe and secure with a strong
human handler, and received good, fair
handling, he would not do what he is doing.
Having a nine year old (without much
experience) ride and handle the horse would
be my next guess and I would say it 85
percent that this is the issue.
Kids don't understand release,
pressure, fear instincts and how a horse
thinks. Horses only put up with
pressure from higher horses, period.
A small child is training a horse
that is larger and stronger and they are
smaller, less experience, can't control a
horse and teach many other bad lessons.
Even very experience small
children have a hard time convincing a horse
that they are alpha and they are higher.
Normally kids resort to pain,
fear, bit bits, stud chains and bully
techniques. This can make a horse
sour. The other side
is they are too nice and just feed and baby
and pamper the horse and the horse see this
as weakness, does not respect them so the
horse pushes a little, tests a lot and learns
that they are really stronger and smarter, so
the horse becomes alpha. I would
try and find a good horse person.
This term is very subjective.
A good horse person is not just
someone who says they are good or someone who
says they are a trainer, or someone who has
owned horses forever, I mean a horseman,
someone who is quite, soft, yet very
effective with horses. Find one
of these if you can and have them take a look
and handle the horse, if the behavior is
stopped and or prevented then the answer is
clear, it is you, your daughter or others who
handle the horse, that is the problem.
Most times when people ask me a questions it
is always what is wrong with my horse he does
x y z, when all the problems are looked at
from it is the horse's problem, it normally
means it is NOT the horse. Anyone
who truly understands horses, knows it is
never the horse's fault and people cause
every problem a horse has. So
when someone asked me to help their horse, I
know they don't understand horses, when
someone ask me to help them, then I know I
have a willing person.
This horse has been shown at shows, been
trailered out a lot, been put in strange
stalls, been forced into to scary situations
at new arenas, new horses, unfamiliar
environments, taken away from his friends and
herd and handled and WORKED for ribbons and
prizes. Although you may blanket
him, feed him good grain, brush him and give
him find stables, NONE of this is what a
horse really needs.
A horse needs love, quality time, time with a
herd, time with people WHEN THEY ARE NOT
REQUIRING THINGS OF HIM, just time being with
him and enjoying him. People
never want to hear that they are the problem
and they are causing a horse to do bad
behavior. From my experience, I
think this horse is soured and has had
enough. He wants to be left
alone, he does not want to be someone's
pretty pony to win medals and ribbons, he
only wants to be a horse, since that is what
he born to be. So he has finally
said enough is enough. He has
figured out that the only way to get people
from using him, pushing him is to act out, to
take charge and to be aggressive.
This happens to race horses all
the time. If you find another a
good horseman in your area and they handle
this horse with no problem then it will
confirm my assessment. Fixing
this is whole new issue. First
you have to accept that you caused it and
want to fix it or you can keep looking for
other reasons, spending vet bills, trying
different food, get bigger bits, try a stud
chain or some other crazy ideas that people
use to "fix" horses since they can't accept
that they (or their child) are problem.
The only thing you have said that makes me
slightly questions this is he has become
disruptive in the herd. This does
not make sense, but what some see as
disruptive, I see as normal herd behavior, so
not sure on this one without more
details.
Without seeing and working the horse, and
only getting your view of the situation, it
is hard to give any other specific course of
action.
Question: We have three mares two of which want to be the dominate one. We have them separated at home, but one day they got in together and had a kick fest, needless to say one had to be taken to the vet but was ok. We still have them separated but we are moving to Oregon and want to put them in together when we get there. Does anyone have any suggestions for us on a way to do this so they don't hurt each other? We have talked to several people who train and they say to put them in together at our now home and run them and then put them into the pasture together. My thought is since it will be a new place that they might not be so dominant towards each other if they get put in together at a new place, since one won't be there first. I am afraid of bringing them one after the other because then one will think it was their home first. Our new pasture will be two acres that is wide open so they will have plenty of room to get away from each other. Our third mare can be in with either one of them, so she's not a problem
A: lol, sorry, but I know you are not a guy and mean well but you are not €˜thinking like a horse €™. Most guys would say they will work it out and they will get tired of kicking. Most women want to protect, save and get way too involved. All horses kick and all bite and all want to be higher. The pecking order keeps order in the herd. These horses are training each other, learning from each other, both wanting to be lead horse to get the mare and both are making each other better and stronger, which makes the herd stronger, which makes them better survivors, which means they will have more lessons and knowledge to pass on to their off spring, which makes the herd stronger and the cycle continues. All normal horse behavior that most humans do not understand. Working the horses before you put them together will take some of the freshness off them, also putting out several small piles of hay (maybe 20 or 30) will keep them busy, make sure the piles are far enough apart that they have to move to get them and they cannot reach each other while eating. This will keep them focused on food and not each other. Removing corners from fences will help so they don €™t get trapped in the corner when they fight. And they will fight, it is their nature to move up and test leaders. Once you put them out, LEAVE, don €™t stand by the gate, ohh €™in and awhhh €™in which will create a draw and they may come to you which will bring them to the fence of gate and increase the chance of them getting trapped, cornered or hurt. It looks worse than it is, so don €™t watch. People that watch tend to want to stop it or help and then they end up making it worse and getting a horse hurt or separate the horses (which you did) and then create more aggression between the horses and increase the drive to fight. Once they are together, DON €™T feed them in one pile or you will cause them to fight, throw hay in several piles to they can pick, move, get pushed off and move without thinking there is only one pile of food and they have to fight to eat. There are two types of horses, those who are hurt and those who will be hurt. You can read my horsemanship page and it will explain herd behavior a little better.
Question: Since getting my prison trained mustang home (Adopted August 2009), he has been separate from our other horses. They can smell and touch through the panels. One day, he reared up and tried to mount our broodmare through the panels. We pulled her apart and put her into pasture for safety purposes. He and our paint mare have become such good friends. They are with each other now, and he has never been aggressive towards her. We are mixing him with our others slowly. Question is: Now he can't stop mounting her. I know he is gelded, but you wouldn't know it. It is literally, "eat, mount up and sleep." I have heard of this happening in the past with some geldings. Has anyone else experienced this with their horses? I know he hasn't seen a mare in a long time, but wow. :)
A: Read the other answer about keeping horses together. He could be proud cut or have a Cryptorchid (I explain this on my horseman tips page: www.thinklikeahorse.org) He could have been cut late so is still showing stud behavior. The mare will stop him when she wants. He is being a horse, if you don €™t understand horses, you tend to want to try and protect them and save them and then end up hurting them or setting them up to fail. Put them together and let horses be horse and work things out like horses. I guess my question is so what if he mounts her? What is he hurting? And don €™t tell me about tearing down the fence, if you put them together and did not separate them the fence would not be an issue. Let them be horses, that is what they know and that is what they are best at.
Introducing New Horse to Herd:
I am a firm believer that a
horse needs a herd. A lone horse
is miserable and develops emotional, mental
and stress related problems. I
would put them both with the herd.
Even a bottom horse plays a role
and had a job in a herd. Every
herd member is needed and valued in a herd.
Even if you think the low horse
only get pushed away, they are needed to keep
the herd strong and always have a challenger.
I say you are never doing a horse a favor by
isolating him and thinking you are protecting
or helping him.
Put them in the herd, it will do everybody
good, the herd will be bigger and feel safer,
everyone will have a job and you will notice
a change and see that they are all better for
it. It may take a week or two as
much as a month, but stay out of it and let
the herd work it out.
Read my horsemanship page on my site I have a
section on Herd behavior and it may make it
clearer.
He is being a horse that is trying to test other horses and see if he can move up in the pecking order. The other horses could run away or chase him or make him stop if they wanted or could stay away from him. If you don't know is age, he may be younger, this it normally behavior of a younger horse around 4 or 5ish, but this horse could have been in a stall him entire life and does not know how to be a horse, how to be in a herd and is trying to figure it out. The herd will teach him in time, just let them work it out. A bite here and there and a kick here and there, is all normal horse stuff. They are just being horses.
Deep mud is not good for them. When you say a herd I think open area and pasture, not a paddock. If you have 7 or 8 horses in a small paddock area that can cause problems. This little guy is going to have a hard time at first. A herd is tough and does not cut slack and does not think emotional, everything is done for a reason. You see the strong ones attacking a new horse, I see the herd pecking being established and reinforced. As long as a horse has a way to get away and run, then they will work it out. Normally when horse get get they get trapped in a fence corner, they have no where to run or it is over food.
A good way to introduce new herd members it to build a temp round pen in the middle of the pasture. That way the new guy and be inside and safe and the rest of the herd can come over, visit, push and squeal and they can get to know each other a little bit before being released. Two or three days in the middle will make the transition much easier.
The key is feeding time, no fence corners and room to run. Horse shoes in pasture is very dangerous and a leg can get broke so that is always a risk. Another option is to take the lead horse in the herd and put them together, they will bond in a week or so and then when the lead horse goes back to herd, he will have bonded with the new horse and will protect or at least help keep the herd from being to hard on him.
Walk the new baby by the fence a lot, let the other horse come up and sniff and squeal and even bite him, he will learn to move and show submission, this exposure will help his not be such an outsider when you put him in. You can even feed him near the fence or tie him by the fence and work with him, the more exposure the herd sees him and is allowed to interact, even through a fence, it will be better for him later.
Question: I have a 17 yr
old mustang horse and a 3 yr old donkey
(owned both for 2 yrs) we just last week got
a 20 yr old pony, we would like advice on how
to introduce pony into herd? Pony is in their
pasture but in barn stall, we have taken the
pony out in evenings into a small paddock we
put up for him so we can watch interaction
through fence with each other. My horse being
the boss in the field has sniffed and left
for the most part, but today he made 2 (what
i call bluff charges) at the paddock where
pony is. The donkey stays at paddock smelling
and trying to poke his head through fence.
The pony doesn't react much at all to any of
this...not even to my horse charging towards
the fence (my horse did stop charge right at
fence (bluff charge or showing dominance? )
Any advice on a safe way to put together and
how to go about it. Thank you
Answer: feed the pony so
he is not hungry, then put out 5 or 10 piles
of hay (half flakes or so each) put these at
least 20 to 30 feet apart so your two will
have lots to think about, then let the pony
in the pasture and you leave and stay out of
it. They will work it out.
Anytime you put a new horse in, there is
always a chance of a kick, cut, bite or fence
crash, but if you put the hay far apart and
not close to any fence, the dominant one will
chase pony off each pile and there will be
enough piles so no one has to defend any
food.
they should be fine, don't try and help or
save, you will make it worse, just give the
herd something to do (check out all the piles
of food) and let the pony out that is not
hungry and they should work it out.
Horse pucky! Horses don't have
to big to be in a herd, think about it, that
would be pretty rough in the wild, if this
was true all baby horses would be beat up or
killed, not real good for species.
The people you ask don't know
what they are talking about and don't
understand herd behavior. If they
understood they would know that the head
horse does not care since he knows he is
lead, he is secure in his position and he
knows the little guy is no threat.
The two other young ones are
fighting for their position and do not want
to be last, the new guy will be last in the
pecking order and they have to show him
that.
I discuss this more on my horsemanship page
under herd behavior. Read that
and if you have more questions, let me
know.You have learned well, no advice should
replace your good judgment or your safety.
I tend to speak for the horse and
that upsets many people. This
colt wants to be part of a herd.
He is afraid and cannot sleep
well and has no friends. He needs
to be chased to develop his muscles, he needs
to be pushed to learn respect and that he
must yield to a higher horse, which will be
you later. The herd has to teach
him herd manners so you can use that
knowledge later to train him. I
am not there, very rarely will a horse beat
or kill another horse, it can happen, it can
happen more with stallions. You
are correct in the wild the mother will
protect a colt, but, if a stallion wants the
horse dead, the mom will be helpless.
We, humans, cause these problems since we buy
sell, move horses from herd to herd, put up
fences where horses can get hurt.
7 acres is pretty good size.
If this colt gets trapped in a
corner of a fence (that would not be in the
wild) he can get hurt. If he
panics and runs blindly in fear, he can run
into or through a fence. So he
can get hurt. In open land he
would just run and the other would get tired
of chasing. The chasing horses
are just showing dominance and teaching him
manners, it is not personal, it is not mean,
it is just horses being horse.
You can do a couple of things to ease the
situation, but I hesitate telling people to
much since they will do what they think they
hear or will do it in a vacuum without the
hundred considerations and variables that
come into play. Every thing you
do depends on several if not a hundred
different options and variables.
Each choice changes with many
factors, the horse €™s
reaction, the other horses reactions, your
reactions, the environmental changes, the
location, etc. Every
factor changes what you can do, what you
should do, what you should not do, how you
should do, how hard to push, how much to
release, when to release, when to stop
releasing, when to stop, when not to stop and
so on and so on. So if I say you
need to do €œX €
and you do without any consideration for all
the other factors then it may not work, if
may backfire and get you or the horse hurt,
or you may get lucky and nothing bad happens.
So when I tell people things,
they miss all the other stuff and then get
mad at me when I tell them, It is them that
causes good or bad, they are the one thing
that makes a situation work or fail, people
don €™t want to hear that,
it is easier to blame the horse for being
stupid, dumb, or crazy.
You can put up some temporary panels in the
middle of the pasture and make a round pen or
box so the colt can hang in there and get to
sniff and get to know the other guys, they
can push and have little fights through the
fence for a day or so and this will make it
easier when you let him out.
You can take out the most aggressive horse
and lock him up for a few days and let the
colt just hang with the leader and one other
horse, then they can accept him and then let
the other out, that way the colt will have
time to learn the fences, learn where he can
run, learn manners and how to run from the
other two and then be better prepared to deal
with the most aggressive horse, when you let
him back in. (I say aggressive,
but I just use that term, this horse is only
being a horse and making sure his spot in the
pecking order is maintained, especially if he
is last, now he is thinking, Yippieeee, now I
have someone lower to push around).
Another option is lock up the lower horses,
let the little guy bond and get to know the
leader and he may take him under his wing and
protect him from the other two.
Just use imagination and come of with ways to
set the horses up for success.
Remember the goal is to get this
little guy with another horse so he can feel
safe and start growing and learning herd
behavior.
I could on and on, but you are there, you
need to work it out and
don €™t set the horse (any
horse) up to fail, help them find the right
answer. It will take time and
effort, but if you rush it, try and take
short cuts you will make the horse pay for
your mistakes.
Well you story is too often heard.
You are why the statistics say
80% of all new horse owners get out of horses
in the first year. You have set
yourself and your horse up for failure.
You think since you rode as a kid
when you had no fear and did not care so much
that you can do the same thing.
You can't, you changed and horses
know it. You need to learn about
horse and stop thinking just because you rode
as a kid that you know horses.
You don't. Read books, read my
web site, I bet you will learn many things
that you never knew as a kid.
This horse is not dangerous, but
it may kill you. That may sound
silly but it is true. The horse
is only a reflection of you. You
do not know what you are doing and the horse
knows it so he is taking advantage of
you.
I am sure you don't want to hear this, but I
am telling you like it is. So
either admit you don't know what you are
doing and fix it, learn and study or get out
of horses before you get hurt and end up
getting your horse hurt.
If you understood herd behavior you would
know that ALL horses bite each other and that
is no reason to keep this horse alone. Put
the horse out with other horses, stay out of
it and let the horses be horses.
They DON'T need you to save them
or protect them from each other.
Believe me horse need much more
protection from people than they do other
horses.
If you don't believe me, put your horses
together and leave them alone in 5 days or
less they will all be buddies and grazing and
peacefully being a herd. Try it,
if you are about to give up anyway what the
hell. After you see that I am
right, then maybe you will listen to what I
said and finally realize and admit, you do
not have a horse problem, you have a you
problem, you are causing your horse to do
what it is doing, the fact that you do not
realize this is part of the problem.
Let the horse be a horse and leave him alone
for a week, read and study everything you can
get your hands on and then start over.
ANSWER: A buddy is the best answer, and if the only reason you are not doing it is so she won't get attached sounds pretty selfish. She is a horse that needs a buddy to feel safe and secure. She is in the pasture much more time than she is with you and for you short periods with her you want to deprive her of feeling safe and having a friend that understands her. People keep horses alone since it is easier on them. I would never keep my horse alone. So what if she gets attached, deal with it, it will make you better at understanding how to deal with and fix problems and keep her focused on you. It may be more work, but it is best for the horse.
ANSWER: I do not believe in using
supplements for behavior problems.
I am a firm believer that horse
problems, as people call them, are caused by
people. Caused by people that
don't understand horses. I say so
what if she gets attached, because if you
understood horses you would know that it does
not matter if a horse is attached, when a
horse is with a strong leader, it will follow
that leader and nothing else matters.
You say you do not have the time
for another horse, time is the number one
problem with all horse owners. To
me it is an excuse not to put in the effort
and time to learn and understand horses.
I have two horses that are
connected all the time, some would say they
are buddy sour, it does not matter when I
take one away they listen to me, since they
see me a strong and their leader.
Depriving a horse of a friend is
selfish, that is my opinion, why should your
horse be destined to a life of being alone
because of your lack of time or to prevent
you from dealing with a normal instinctive
behavior, being part of a herd.
Why? For the same
reason that most do it, it is easier for
YOU.
So as your, I would be thinking, lets see, my
owner wants me to listen to her when she
decides to come out, but every night I am
alone, fearful and without a herd, I spend
all most of my time alone and insecure since
I do not have a buddy help me stay safe, I
don't sleep good and I don't rest good, since
I am alone most of time, then when I am not
alone, I have this human come out, rush to
saddle me, ride me, tell me what to do and
then she leaves me alone, by myself most of
the time. Why should I like this
human, why does she abandon me every night,
why does she just spend time with me when she
wants ride me and then leaves me and then she
expects me to be grateful for some hay and
treats.
As for trying to fix what you call problems,
what I call normal horse behavior, with
supplements, that would be like me telling
you if someone is hitting you and abusing
you, you should take some vitamin C.
This is not about what you feed
your horse, this is about you having a
relationship and understanding of your so
your horse will trust you and see you a fair
leader that it can trust. I am
sure in your mind that you think you treat
your horse good with good food and give it a
good home, that is not want a horse wants or
needs, a horse wants safety and security,
they only get that from other horse or people
that understanding and act like other horses.
Being nice and feeling good about
yourself means absolutely nothing to a horse.
I am pretty sure I could work your horse for
about 15 minutes, take it for a ride and it
would not do what it does to you.
The horse would know I know
horses and would see me as a safe and
dependable leader and would act totally
different with me. As I always
say this is not a horse problem, not a
supplement problem, not a weather problem,
not a traffic problem, not a barn
problem...... which leaves People, more
specifically you. Fix yourself
and your horse will get better.
Stop blaming the horse or looking
for other solutions, you only have to look in
the mirror to find the answer.
Helen, like many people who ask me
questions, the last thing they want to hear
is they are problem and the want me to tell
them how to fix the horse. Anyone
reading this and if you read again, I never
said you hit or abuse you horse.
You hear what you want to hear,
you see what you want to see. You
are still telling me your is stubborn!
As I say a lot, people that use
negative terms to describe their horse are
really describing themselves. So
I would from your response that you are
stubborn and you horse is only a reflection
of you. So you are more than
willing to keep coming up with excuses about
the poor horse's past, the lack of
supplements, your horse is sensitive, your
horse is clever and any other reason.
You asked for my opinion and I
gave it to you, nothing you have said has
changed my opinion and if anything it has
confirmed it. You see your horse
as stubborn, you respond to this by being
stubborn and then your prediction is proven.
If I think a horse is mean, I
treat it mean, it will be mean.
It I think a horse is abused, I
spoil it and soon it becomes more spoiled and
then I use the excuse that it was abused.
Horses are reflections of the
people handling them. A calm
horse is handled by a calm person, a nervous
horse is handled by a nervous person, a
stubborn horse is handled by a stubborn
person.
You want to talk about how you saved this
horse from meat, that is great and good, but
your horse does not care, does not know it,
does not appreciate it, does not owe you for
it or anything else. A horse does
not care if you feed it, give it treats or
keep it warm. People do get that
and that is why there so many people blaming
horses for problems that they create.
Stop looking for the problem,
look at yourself, make yourself better and I
assure you your horse will get better, it is
really that simple.
So disagree with me, disagree with your
horse, and keep searching for someone who
will tell you what you want to hear and maybe
you will FEEL better, but it will not help
your horse.
Hobbles:
Hi Sue, hobbles are great tool for
teaching many things. In the days
where your horse was your only means of
transportation, while traveling long
distances you would have to sleep where you
could, many times there were no trees and no
way to secure your horse. Hobbles
allowed you to let your horse graze through
the night while keeping him close so in the
morning your horse would not be several miles
away. Some horseman use bells on
a rope tied on their horse to help find them
after a night of grazing. By
putting a bell on the lead horse, you can
find the herd easier in the morning.
Hobbles allow a horse to still
use his back legs for protection and even to
run if needed, but help minimize his speed of
travel.
As for hobble being an advance sack out
technique, it teaches a horse to trust you
not to hurt him. It teaches a
horse to learn to deal with being trapped or
restricted without panic. A
hobble trained horse will fight less if ever
trapped in a fence, wire or things that could
hurt him. Hobbles, if done right,
remove fear and teach a horse
confidence.
I explain this in more detail on my web site,
read my sacking out section on my
horsemanship page.
This sounds like a exception
rather than a rule. You sound
like you are doing some good things, but they
are not working. So looking at
this from the horse's point of view, why is
not working? You have to be
willing to change if you want to see change
in your horse. The horse is
telling you something, it may be something
hurts, I am in pain, I don't understand, I am
confused, I don't know what is going to
happen.... something is going on
and the horse is telling trying to tell you.
Are you listening or you so
focused on fixing the problem you see that
you are missing what the horse is saying.
You say the horse does not like
to move, you say the horse stands around a
lot and does not play, then you say the
sweats and gets wild when you make her move,
lunge or ride her, so I would look for pain
or physical issues and make sure her sweating
and reactions are not from pain.
Then I would try and change what I doing, do
different things to see if I can get
different responses. This horse
is not a horse anymore since it has been
ruined, reprogrammed and taught bad lessons
from bad people. Sometime this
can take years to undo, sometime it will
never get undone and you will only see small
changes.
Now to contradict what I just said, it sounds
like you have changed bits, pulleys, gear,
hacks, and other things. So maybe
you did not stick to something long enough to
get her to adjust and accept
it.
What seem to work best with horses are
calmness, consistency, routine and lack of
restraint. Horses that want to
run off always do worst when people try and
hold or force them to stop. Try
and stop trying to force her to walk, or to
stop her from running, focus more on
redirecting her fear and outburst.
She has to learn to look to you
for calmness and security. When
she goes off on her instinctual reactions,
your goal has to be able to pull her back to
you. Pull not by force, but by
understanding. Not sure how much
time you are spending with her, but that is
important, the more time you spend with her,
not asking or making her do something, the
more she will not fear or be concerned with
you, which will make it easier for her to
look to you when scared or to seek your
direction.
Not sure I like you keeping her away from
other horse, if she did good with stud, when
not in heat I would keep her with him, she
obviously still understands horses since,
according to you, he has gotten through to
her. Neglected and abused horses
need recovery time with horses, they need
time away from humans that just require
things of them. I believe this is
the best healing they can have.
You said she likes being ponied and does
well, I do as much of that as you can, if you
do it enough you can probably pony her with
no lead. You can teach her to
follow you and stay with you over time.
I like to pony out a horse and
then let off lead on the way home, most
horses will just follow the other horse home
and at worst will run home and leave the
other horse, if it is safe, let her figure it
out and after a while she will just figure
out to follow you and you can pony her on all
rides. Then you can observe her
responses with not human interference, no
reins, no pulling, no rider.. this will help
confirm that she is not in pain and you can
get a better indicator on what the horse is
about, let her grow and experience things
without being told, forced, pulled,
pressured. Over time she will
figure it out. The slow way is
the fast way. Lots of time, lots
of small progress, lots of release on all
tries, all of this seems to work best.
When you lunge or round pen her, don't ask
for movement, just be with her, let her
decide to stand or walk, let her decide to
run or trot, you just see how little you can
to get her to do something other than stand,
but standing is OK too. So change
what you know, change what has not worked,
ask less. When she decides to
turn up the heat, disengage from her, not
pressure, release of pressure, start walking
away, relax and move slowly away, she will be
confused and will follow and will likely calm
down, since she is expecting you to put
pressure by slowing her, speeding her,
stopping her, since she expects this, don't
do it, confuse her and make her think, what
is going on, why is this happening, this has
never happened before, then you move her out
of reaction, expectation and get her to think
and be curious, then she will be thinking and
not reacting.
This sounds like one of the horses you have
to think out of the box, she is teaching you.
She is going to make you better
and make you use different mental tools in
your tool box. The old screw
driver and pliers will not here, so you have
to find the new and right tool for her.
I would be she is used to
fighting humans, don't fight with her.
However with that said, how did
the stud get her to listen or respond.
If it worked for him, use his
technique. Just keep putting
yourself in your horses position, but
remember horses don't bribe with carrots and
treats to get respect, they don't feel sorry
for a lower horse.
More turn out time is great and that is one
thing that you did that has probably helped
more than you know, so keep her out of that
stall as much as possible.
hope this helps,
Comment: The hobble is probably the most dangerous and most disrespectful act you can ask a horse to engage in. 9 out of 10 horses will be seriously injured their first time. Think about it...would Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli hoble a horse? I think not. This is my personal opinion. I've owned horses for 25 years and only know one guy who talked about hobling a horse many, many years ago. If you resort to hobling a horse, hoble yourself first. Horses are fight or flight animals. Hobling a horse is abuse!
Answer: You don't understand horses or hobbles, hobbles are better than a bit/tie down/nails in a hoof. A bit causes pain. OMG, horses are flight animals, No shit, If you read my site you might truly understand this concept and not just repeating what you have heard. Anyone/Monty/Pat knows that hobbles are a great way to let your horse roam, eat & relax. The stats you used that 9 out of 10 only shows the 9 idiots that hurt the horse did it wrong. Horses are hurt everyday & some blame the bit, the horse, the saddle, the fence & YOU blame the hobbles, don't preach ignorance using good horseman names to try and impress or give the impression that your lack of knowledge is somehow improved since you use well know horseman's names.
Hoof and Feet:
| I am not a farrier but
I do my horses feet myself.
So I can only give try and
answer this but there are two or three
good farriers here on allexperts and
they could give you better and more
detailed advice. If you
take pictures of the feet they will
look at them and give you good
tips. The long wet season can make feet soft and can cause some mud scald. My thoughts on trimming feet is LESS is always better. It sounds like you may be taking off a little much, but without seeing the hoof it is hard to tell. Also during wet times, move hoof comes off with each rasp since the hoof is normally moister and softer so it is easy to take off too much on a soft hoof verses a horse dry hoof. Not trimming them for a month or so will not hurt and may give time to grow and heal. I often have a farrier take a look at my horse's feet to ensure they look balanced and even and to make sure I am not missing anything. You may consider have a good farrier come out and do a trim after a month or so and see what they say. I really recommend that you re-ask this question to a farrier expert and get their take. |
Your horse looks very sad. He had a good friend and now is alone. Horses need another horse to relax and to play and so they can rest and relax. Your horse is nervous and scared and without another horse to spend time with he will get worse. He is also 18 years old so he is set in his ways and if he has had bad handling then it will take longer to work on those. I would not ride this guy until he was better adjusted to his new home and you understand horses more.
Hoof cracks could be bad, but I would have a farrier take a look at next time one is out. I am pretty anti shoe, but a crack that goes all the way to cornet band is not good. This is something that needs to be checked out in person, you can take a couple of pics and send them I will take a look, but depending on how deep is the issue, a minor superficial crack may not be that bad, but if it is deep through the hoof wall, then the hoof strength is definitely compromised. If she is running and being active in pasture, then it can't be that bad, but remember round penning is very tough on horses since it puts lots of weight on the outside, too much running a round pen does lots of long term damage, I think. I use round pens more for control, pressure and release to teach a horse I can put pressure and release if it the come or follow, it should not be an exercise pen, very unnatural and can do more damage than the extra weight.
Horse Behavior:
QUESTION: I'm 52, been around horses much
of my life, horse has been out on pasture
with one youger gelding. I bought a big
quarter horse I would guess he was about 5-6
when I got him. Very
disrespectful, I have had him two
years. He got better but not completely was
treated like a dog not a horse.
I'm a big guy 6'6" 250 not used
to loosing in these type of contests.
He decided he was NOT going ot be
shod that last time by the farrier.
I have had back problems and
can't ride like I used to, can't bend over to
work on his feet. No round pen although that
may change. All the common
disrespect kind of issues. Not standing still
while mounting until I have a couple miles on
him... I read all your comments that I could
before sending this one and I like your
responses. I did send him to the
Amish to try to get the attitude off him once
and for all. I read the opener on
one you had recommending not to do this but
was unable to read further. Now I
have some concerns about having sent him.
It's kind of a thing where if I can't get
this fixed. He's going to be in a lot of
trouble because I don't sell my problems to
others and I can't justify keeping him if I
can't work with him.
ANSWER: Well lots going on here.
It sounds like this horse has
been trained well to learn that he is in
charge, he is bigger, he is stronger and he
gets his way... all bad lessons to teach a
horse. So now the horse has
become the teacher and he is teaching well.
It sounds like he has taught you
that you can't win, not true, but if you
believe it, then it is so. It you
believe you can or believe you can't, you are
probably right!
Older Men horse owners tend to be too
aggressive, much like most women tend to be
too nice and think love will make a horse
better. All discipline and no
love is just as bad as all love and no
discipline. Both confuse the
horse.
In my younger days, growing up in Texas, it
was all about showing the horse who is boss,
and that worked, when you are young, strong
and in good health, but later in life, it
does not work so well as you are finding out.
I hear a lot about this horse,
but not too much about you. Being
around horses and owning horses does not mean
you understand horses. I say this
since I was around horses for years and did
not have a clue. Natural
Horsemanship works, it works better and is
easier on horse and human.
However, unless you think like a
horse, understand a horse's mind,
understanding a horse's instincts,
understanding that Release teaches, know
about feel and timing, know about pressure
and release, advance and retreat, knowing
about herd behavior, knowing how horses talk
and communicate with each other, know what
you are saying with your body and actions,
all these things make you successful or
unsuccessful with horses.
You are still seeing this as a horse problem,
I tell you and just about everybody,
including myself, whatever a horse does you
cause it, you either cause good behavior or
bad behavior, to a horse it is just behavior.
Read my horsemanship page, it will make you
see there is a lot about a horse you do not
know. Once you accept that you
are the problem and if you change your horse
will change, then you will see progress.
A horse is give and take, if you just take
the horse will stop giving, if you just give
the horse will take more and more.
It has to be a partnership.
The Amish do not believe this,
they normally believe that pain, meanness,
threats and intimidation all bad since they
do not understand release, or having a
relationship with a horse, they only
understand dominance and fear.
Maybe not all, but most that I
know of.
Work on yourself and your horse will get
better. This horse is teaching
you, this horse is forcing you to learn, it
is not going to let you get away with the old
brute force training methods, this horse is
going to make you understand horses and learn
their language if you want to Win......
Calm seas never made a good
sailor and easy horses never made a good
horseman.
As for you not wanting to pass on your
problems, you are the problem not the horse,
in another hands, this horse could be a gem..
don't make this a horse problem, this horse
needs change, either change in you, change to
someone else or change in how it is
treated.
Horses are masters of change.. they adapt
almost too well, whenever something changes
they know it and they change and they adapt.
You have a great horse here that
is tying to force you to be better, don't
sell him short or yourself, read, try
different things and grow with this horse
instead of fighting and allowing him to lead
you down the path of failure.
The short answer is, move a horses feet to
show him you are higher. Stop
him, move him, change his direction, change
is speed, make him back up, all of this tells
him you are higher and he should not
challenge you.
Hope this helps,
Rick
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: You are correct sir, an old dog can
learn new tricks if the old dog doesn't let
old pride interfere. Thank You for your
prompt response
Answer: Thank
you.. I must say it is refreshing to have
someone listen to my suggestions and not take
personal and tell me how rude I am to even
suggest that it may be their fault.
Horses make us better, they challenge us,
they force us to be on our A game or they
take over, it is their way. They
are always trying to find weakness in their
leader since their life depends on it.
They are always on their A game
or they are dead. Horses are not
mean they are direct, they are not ego driven
they are staying alive driven.
Their entire life is about being
a part of a social herd where numbers mean
safety and having only the strongest and
smartest leader keeps them alive.
Success to a horse is not about
impressing others, being right or other petty
human traits, it is about staying alive.
They are the purest form of
survival of the fittest. All too
often people want to make them better,
improve them, or help them......
they do not need our help or
improvement, they are pretty prefect as they
are... but as humans, with our egos and self
importance, we always want to make it their
problem... It just ain't so and
once people get that, they are on their way
to true horsemanship.
Best to both of you,
| Question: | QUESTION: I acquired
an 8 year old Arabian Gelding that has
been previously ridden only in arena
and paddock or small field settings. He
is very "Arabian" in that he is
sensitive and reactive but also
wonderfully responsive. He is sound,
healthy, on daily turnout with 2 other
horses and close to many others. He is
stalled for 4 to 8 hours each day with
pelleted feed and hay. He has had some
professional training for the show ring
but when I bought him, I was told he
wasn't happy in the show ring. I am a
trail rider. I have moderate experience
riding trail and have done some long
distance rides. I cannot get this horse
desensitized to the trails. He spooks
dangerously at anything that he cannot
see. I can lead him and he's fine.
Mounted he is dangerous. He rears,
spins, bolts and hops. I have had
broken bones as a result. He might be
fine and confident one day with a quiet
horse companion then the next day be
frantically nervous. He will cross
water one day and the next act like
he's never seen the same creek. He is
responsive, respectful and confident in
an arena setting or in hand. I have
gone so very very slow with his trail
training but cannot get him accustomed
to it. It has been nearly a year. He
will, without warning, spook at a sound
or site that is something he's seen or
heard before without warning and he's
very light on his front end. I once
enjoyed his challenges, he's a dream to
ride and I like animated horses but
this feels like he becomes unhinged and
there's no way to ground him and
reassure him once he is anxious. Any
tips beyond the "you need to
desensitize him" or "give it time"
would be appreciated. I am surrounded
by experienced riders who have not been
able to tell me how to handle him. I
don't want to give up on him. image: Horses-702/2009/07/Bay-Arab.jpg ANSWER: I always look to people for the problem and not the horse. You may be too nice and too easy and he knows it. This is a smart horse, you think he is not learning, I think is learning too well. He knows your weakness and is using them. Sacking out is different than just desensitizing him. Read my sacking out section on my horsemanship page. Show and teach this horse you can create fear and remove it, you can make him nervous and uncomfortable and can make him feel safe, this horse will get his confidence from you, but you must first have it. If he is so good on ground then find things that scare him and stop his fear and put him to work and make his attention go away from fear and back to you. Time will teach you, a horse knows how to be a horse. My guess is that this horse does not run around the pasture scared all the time when you are not riding him or with him, that is a good sign that you are doing something to cause this or not doing enough to prevent it. Read my site so you understand horses better and turn up the heat on this horse and show him you are a strong leader that will not allow him to be fearful. ---------- FOLLOW-UP ---------- QUESTION: I've read a number of your articles on your site including the sacking out part. I watched the video. As I said before he does not react in a bad way to stimulus in hand and is calm when being led, tied and handled. It's only under saddle and on the trail that he becomes fearful. I ride other horses, some young and learning and I don't have a problem with them even when they are fearful or spooky. I agree that his is a confidence problem and that he'll get confidence from me but when he becomes unhinged, exactly HOW do I "stop his fear"? When he is experiencing snorting, shaking, head up, heart pounding fear reaction do you think he is "using my weaknesses"? I wish I knew more about all the skeletons in his closet. I think I know that time is my answer, I just hope he doesn't hurt me in the meantime. Thanks for your help, this is a really valuable service! |
| Answer: |
You cannot stop his fear, part of the
problem is you think you can, you try
and you fail. All horses
identify weaknesses in people and
other horses. He is found
many in you. He knows he
can get you off, he knows you get
scared when he gets scared, he knows
you will not correct or discipline
him for reacting the way he does to
his fear, he knows you do not help
him with his fear with strong
direction and instead try and talk
and calm him. YOU DO NOT
UNDERSTAND HORSES. You
think since you can ride other horses
with no problems then this must be a
horse problem. You want
to worry about his skeletons and
think that somehow you can fix or
make it better by knowing what he has
been through. I think you
are wrong. YOU hope he
does not hurt you, he does not care
what you hope, he does not care if he
hurts you and he does not care that
love him and take care of him, he is
a horse and that is all he knows how
to be. YOU can't admit
that you are the problem, you can't
help this horse since you don't
understand horses, you don't want to
get hurt, but you don't know how to
increase your chances of not getting
hurt. You are looking at
this from your emotions and not for
logic. This horse does not want to hurt you, he does not want to hurt himself, but he will do both to try and stay alive. You see his fear as a problem, he sees it as a way to stay alive, since you look at this from a you and human side and he looks at this as a horse and stay alive side, your chances of succeeding are less and your chances of getting you or the horse hurt is more. Reading a few articles, watching a few videos, riding a few horses, do not teach you about horses. Horses are the best teacher of horses. You don't know it but this horse is making you better, he is making you more aware, he is making you have a better seat, he is building your confidence, he is forcing you to grow and try and learn different ways, but with horses the lessons are dangerous and unforgiving. Stop thinking the horse has a problem and work on yourself, then your horse will get better. Stop thinking you got have this figured out, you don't, you don't understand horse fear, you don't understand how to remove fear, you don't understand how to teach a horse to respond differently to his fear. I know this since the horse is telling you this. The horse will tell you when you are right and when you are wrong. Problem is most people are too busy being right to listen, they are too busy helping, they are too busy trying to fix the horse. I work with horses all the time where people tell me how special their horse is, how different their horse is, how what a troubled past their horse has had and each and every time the horse does fine when I work with it. So you would think the people would get that they are the problem and not the horse............Nope, they end up wanting to give me the horse or tell me what a gift I have, or how I have a special way with horses or their horse must be a Man's horse. None of what is true, I understand horses, I know horses, I listen to horse and I know that a horse is only the reflection of who is handling it and that I cause all things that happen when I handle a horse. If a horse does good, I cause it, if it does bad, gives me the wrong answer, get hurts or confused, I CAUSED IT. Most people never get this and that is why horse traders, trainers and others make lots of money off lots of people. Work on yourself and your horse will get better. |
|
Question: |
I'm 52 and a average
rider. I've worked on desensitizing. My
horse is kept at a ranch stalled next to other horses which she is GREATLY attached to and I hate it! My horse bolts for the "sole" purpose of running back to the hitching rail and not spooking and it is REALLY obvious this is her goal. She dumped me yesterday and I really hurt my back badly. I'm too old to get hurt like this and want to break this bad habit of hers. Desensitizing is a must but when the bolting is for the specific reason to run home what would the training consist of? |
| Answer: |
Well, I don't think you are going
to like my answer, but I have gotten
used to it, so here I go.
:) This is
not a horse problem. You
are looking at this like the horse
planned to hurt you or planned to run
back or is so smart that it knows
what it is doing, all wrong in my
book. This horse is being
a horse and part of the problem is
you don't see this or understand it.
This horse telling you,
screw off, you are not a good leader,
you don't have my respect, you can't
stop me, you can't make me not want
to do this and the big pay off for
the horse is, IT GETS RELEASE!
-- I just did
an article on release and the link is
below.
I have a 17.2hh TB gelding who is
11yrs old who was normally very quiet
but I had a bad accident while
jumping one of my old horses and am
just trying to get back into riding
and over my fear. I have only had
darcy for just over a week and have
not been able to ride due to weather
conditions and the fact he has
recently thrown a shoe. I had him
cleared of any problems or drugs by a
vet and when i rode him pre purchase
he was perfect but he is now becoming
very aggressive and piggish when i
handle him on the ground and it is
making me uneasy about riding him.
his feed is all cool mixes and low
energy as he is not work at the
moment what could be causing this
change in temperament and what can i
do to regain control and respect. I
love him very much and he is just so
beautiful he is a stunning mover and
i want to be able to have a good
partnership with my boy. First I would say you need to not call your horse names. Your horse is only a horse and any bad habits or negative behaviors have been taught to him by PEOPLE. If you came off a race track you would not be happy either, handled every day by people that care about you, all they do is take you out of a stall run the crap out of you, put you on a hot walker, put you back in the stall and feed you high rich energy food and then keep you locked up until they want to run the crap out of you the next day.... not much a life for anyone, especially a horse, so cut him some slack.
ANSWER: It may be
teeth, but I don't think so.
I think this horse like
most horses do not like barrel
racing. Running barrels
is hard on a horse, they normally get
kicked to go faster, they get their
mouth yanked on to make them turn
faster and they learn very quick to
associate barrels with pain and work.
When people say My horse
loves, that normally means they love
it and then want to see their horse
love it. I have never met
a horse that loved barrel racing.
What they love is to do
as fast as they can so the rider will
get off and leave them alone.
Question: I am 35
yrs old with very little experience
with horses however my friend has
experience with them and is teaching
me how to train my horse which is 3
yrs old. I keep her at my
friends place and she brought home 2
Morgans mid winter this year...until
then my horse had been by
herself....now she is what my friend
calls herd bound...she cannot bear to
be away from the 2 which do not like
her at all...she lost her baby at 5
months due to the gelding kicking
her. so we have to keep
them separated now since they tried
to run her through the barbed
fence...inside the small barn they
are kept tied in straight stall
fashion (we are working on getting
the bigger barn built which will have
separate stalls) opk the
problems are - herd bound how do we
fix this?, acts up and strikes out
when my friend goes to take her out
of the barn after the other 2 were
let out...from what we can tell she
was led around with kids on her back
...she leads ok but when you get in
the saddle and try to get her to step
out she "explodes" according to my
friend...I have yet to see it happen
though so I am not sure....I have
seen the others and when I have
handled her also she has acted up
occasionally but I noticed
not as much
as when my friend is
around....I understand that she is
young and will try to get away with
things but we have to get her over
the herd bound thing and striking out
to get her own way...that can be
dangerous...I don't want her spirit
broke but at the same time I need a
horse that isn't dangerous....I have
worked with her myself and haven't
had much of a problem, every chance I
get I work with her so I don't think
I am the problem because she responds
to me and I don't use whips
and such....please let me
know what you think ...I would
appreciate it greatly. ANSWER: Of course she is fixable. She is not broke, she is just a horse. All horse bite and all get bit, that is how they show dominance and try and move up in the herd. You took her out, stopper her from eating, she did not know you much less respect you, so she told you so the only way she know how. You continued to make this about the horse, you say you couldn't catch her, I say you did not know how to catch her and now you have learned how to catch her. You say she is difficult, she is just a horse looking for answers. You say the training techniques that you learn at clinics don't seem to apply to her. MAYBE, you are not doing the techniques rights, maybe your timing is off, maybe your feel is not developed, maybe you don't have the experience of working with 100's or 1000's of horses that the people that taught the clinics did. I worked with lots of people and horses and 99% of the time it is the person causing the problems. They read books, watch dvds, go to clinics and then never work with tough or difficult horses. They always seek and want the easy horses, the ones that listen and require less work, so they never really understand a horse, they never work through the problems and just quit or move on or sell the horse and mostly just blame the for being stubborn, stupid, crazy or some other name. I have encountered lots of horses that nothing seems to work but I have to keep trying, I have to try and see what I doing wrong, if what I am doing is not working then I am doing it wrong. A good horseperson will always look to what they are doing and never blame the horse. You don't know it, but his horse is being a great teacher, she is not going to work for just anyone, she is not going to allow just anyone to follow, she is going to make sure you really want it, you are really dedicated and will not give up on her. She is where she is since many people have quit on her, blamed her, and make it all her fault. So she has learned well from all the people that left her. ANSWER: OK Carol, this horse's
behavior is caused by you.
Until you accept this as
fact you can not fix it.
If you think it is the
horse, the new area, the age, the
prior handling, the breed, the long
walk, then YOU cannot fix this.
You have to acknowledge
that you are causing this since you
are not stopping or preventing it.
This horse is convinced
that you can't control her, you don't
trust her, you are not secure or safe
when you are with her.
She knows this and I know
this, so until you accept this, her
behavior will continue.
Hi Tricia, this is odd. I would
not sell the horse, if anything give
him away to a great home, but not
yet. This horse may be
very connected to you and see's these
others as competition to his herd of
you and him. Regardless
of the reason, he should not be doing
this. You said you have
not been spending much time as you
did, horses know this and get sour
for being abandoned and left on his
on. I would guess these
other people do not spend time with
the horse either so he has no reason
to accept them other then his respect
for you. If you are
really seen as the leader, then he
should not do this if you correct him
or tell him to stop, however, if you
two are pretty equal and he thinks
you are not the clear leader, then he
will want to protect you and keep you
for him, that tells me he sees you as
his herd and not as you being the
leader. Ignore her resistance.
Make her move, stay
focused on what you want, move her
feet, and don't get distracted by her
test (tail, squeal, threats)
any threats to kick, bite
or strike, needs to be corrected with
harsh discipline. That is
a no no and she needs to know it hard
and fast. A minor kick
out and buck is not bad, but if she
tries to kick or spins her butt and
backs to you, hit her with a rope,
stick or anything you can on the butt
"as hard as you can", do not be easy,
do not be soft, it needs to scare the
S*#*# out of her and she will not do
it again. First, you need to be with your
horse more during this time so you
can see it for your self.
If my horse is "going
crazy" I would be there
to see it. You call it
tantrums, maybe your horse is scared,
maybe she is going night blindness,
maybe someone is doing something to
cause this, maybe she is in pain from
an internal issue. What
ever it is, if it was my horse I
would be there. Since the problem just started either you caused it or others are lying to you and not telling you problem. Since I cannot see you ride and did not see the ridden before you, there is no way for me to know. Circling a horse is always the best response and most times will only agitate and make the horse more nervous. People who circle a horse are normally nervous, insecure and don't know any better. It will slow a horse, it will help a horse from running away, but is not a real training method, it is a stall or pause so you can get the horse to come back to you. The horse has to learn that doing this is more work than not doing it, so he will not want to do it. This behavior is either fear based or lack of respect based. You need to determine this in order to know how to address it. Fear based can not be handled with more pressure. See my sacking out section on my site. Ground work and making the horse
respect you may or may not help your
daughter. I
would lean more to will not help
enough. If horses are
handled more by good leaders and by
people that understand horses, then
they become less resistance to all
people. However, if they
are handled more by kids, not strong
leaders or people that don't
understand horses, then they tend to
not respect all people and will test
and push people more.
|
First I would say you need to
not call your horse names. Your
horse is only a horse and any bad habits or
negative behaviors have been taught to him by
PEOPLE. If you came off a race
track you would not be happy either, handled
every day by people that care about you, all
they do is take you out of a stall run the
crap out of you, put you on a hot walker, put
you back in the stall and feed you high rich
energy food and then keep you locked up until
they want to run the crap out of you the next
day.... not much a life for anyone,
especially a horse, so cut him some
slack.
You said your self that he does better when
left in pasture with his buddies.
Of course he does, horses hate
stalls, they hate being locked up, and they
have lots of energy that needs to be let off
and they can't do it in a stall.
That will fix most of this.
The other thing is he is biting and pinning
and kicking all are dominance issues that
should not be allowed. You have
to impress this horse that you are a leader
and you will not allow that. You
do that by first not locking him up, then
being a good leader, spending time with him
not working him, take him for walks and
grazing, and if he shows any disrespect you
have to let him know that you can move his
feet, back him up, make him move, disengage
his hips and other things that make him
submit and tells him you are boss and he does
not do those things.
Read my horsemanship page on my site it will
give you a better idea on where this horse is
coming from.
ANSWER: Since you have owned the horse for the 17 years, you have to try and figure out what is casing this. It could be something you are doing or some type of pain the horse is feeling. Something changed to cause this new behavior. Without more information, I can't really help. How much handling does the horse get, do you only feed and groom or is the horse worked or ridden, when does this happen, is it consistent, what else is happening around the horse when this happens, when does it stop, is the other horse around, is just doing this to you or others, does it stop doing this when you do something, is there always food present or involved, is there treats involved, does this happen in the same location all the time, what do you do when this happens, what do others do when this happens, how long as this been going on..... as you can tell there more questions than answers, so trying to give you an answer on this without more info is not going to be helpful.
No I did not misread or skip the part,
lots of people say they know it is there
fault. Saying this is not the
same are really understanding Why it is your
fault, not understanding this horse is just
doing what you are allowing it to do.
Being mean is relative.
I will attack a horse that
charges me, tries to strike or kick me, that
is not mean, that is being aggressively
assertive, so there is not confusion that
these actions bring immediately and negative
responses from me. That is not
being mean or mad, it is teaching the horse
not to do things that can hurt me.
It also makes the horse better,
gives him boundaries and keeps him clear that
he is lower and I am higher, he is not being
mean when he kicks at me, I have let him down
for not showing him that he cannot do that,
showing him that is unacceptable and showing
him that lower horses (him) do not kick
higher horses (me) or they are moved and
attacked, just like any other higher horse
would do. So being mean (to me)
is more when someone tries to be nice to a
horse, tries not to hurt the horse, tries to
talk human to the horse and then sets the
horse up for failure, sets the horse up to
hurt someone and then the horse gets put to
sleep for being a mean or dangerous.
That is mean to me.
So don't set this horse up,
knowing it is your fault is only part of the
solution, the other part is taking the right
corrective action or taking the right
proactive/preventative action to stop the bad
behavior from ever happening. If
you keep this horse focused on you, make it
circle you, make it back up a few steps, stop
if every few steps, make it walk and then
stop, make it walk backwards, stop and pet
and rub it, all of this keeps the horse
focused on you and not the gate or pasture.
This shows the horse you control
the feet and you control the horse's
movement, so you are higher. It
does not have to be done mean or aggressive,
just consistent and clear.
Good luck, tell the horse thanks for letting
you know that you have not been a good leader
and that you were not clear on your position
and the horse's position.
:)
Give the old girl a hug for me.
:)
Hi Becky, training a horse is like
building a house. Can you imaging
emailing me and asking, I am building a house
can you tell how to do it. This
is a really broad question. There
are about a 1000 things that can get you hurt
and another 1000 that may get you hurt and
another 1000 that might get you hurt a little
bit. The point I am making is
training a horse involves a whole lot, so you
need to try and educate yourself as best you
can. I could tell you what to do,
but I can't explain timing, I can't explain
feel, I can't tell how to read every horse.
I make my web site to help people
understand horse horses and to help horses
get a better deal. My advice is
to read my web site completely, you can skip
the cowboy weather, but read it from start to
finish, I touch on lots of things that get
people in trouble and get horse and people
hurt. At least with this little
knowledge it will help you, but by no means
will it make you a expert trainer.
Remember these things:
The horse is best teacher of the horse.
Listen
It is never the horse's fault.
You cause good and bad,
YOU.
The slow way is the fast way with horses.
Don't rush or try fast
Never get mean or mad. Be
assertive, firm and fair
Learn to speak horse. Herd
behavior is key to working with horses
Actually, from your email, you seem to blame the horse for pulling you and ending up on the ground. Had you not hung on to the rope or not been in his way, the horse would not have knocked you down. You, like most horse problems, are really the problem (people problems). This horse is running and scared since he does not trust you and feel that you can keep him safe and he thinks you don't know what you are doing. He may be right since you are ending up on the ground. This horse needs a strong leader, and it he does not see you as that person he will run you down and be scared with you.
ANSWER: Like most people that don't understand horses, they always look to the horse for the problem. I know that it is never the horse's fault. I would say it is you daughters issue or others if others ride or handle the pony. All ponies tend to get bad reputations, they are bought and sold, they are owned by people that think they are a cute pet and know little about horses, then after the newness wears off, they are sold and they cycle starts over, I have never known a pony that did not have at least 3 or 4 previous owners. It is a bad cycle for a horse and they get bitter and resentful and then to start biting, kicking and rearing. This is from years of abuse and neglect by people that don't understand horses. Oats probably have nothing to do with this, lack of exercise, lack of proper handling, lack of consistent handling, rough and inexperience riders and hands are more likely the cause of these problems and it will get worse.
The following question was rather long, but it has some good points that some of you may get from it.
I have had for horses for around 13 years
and have our 2 girls in OJRA (Ohio Junior
Rodeo Assoc.)they run barrels, poles, dummy
rope and the oldest breakaways and goat ties.
My wife also runs NBHA and I am an inspired
team roper in the OTR (Ohio team roper) most
are #8 or # 12 ropers. I currently use other
members horses to rope as I try to finish out
a QH to rope on. I put the training on hold
and purchased a finished head/heal that Chuck
Holloway use to pasture rope on, and did
pickup on. The horse once owned by Walt
Woodward I was told at one time as well or at
least hauled by him. I have done all research
on the horse and talked with Chuck and the
breeder of the horse numerous times before
purchasing.
Horse-9 year old QH gelding (ranch/cow bred
out of Eagle Butte, SD) 15.1 1250# very
thick, big boned. He is stalled next to a 6
year old QH mare, and kept with 3 other QH's
(5 total horses). They do get turn out about
every other day.
My experience--team and calf roper (only for
2 years), ranch work (cutting, penning,
pasture roping 5 years) starting yearlings on
the ground and in the saddle for numerous
years.
Problem-horse was abused by high school girl
and trainer before I purchased him and now
you can't mount him safely.
I really do not have details what they did to
him, but am trying to find that out. I have
only owned the horse for 3 days (picked him
up on Saturday 1/17/2009), but he has settled
in nicely and has bonded with our kids bay QH
barrel mare. We are very slow with our
training and believe you get a better horse
in the end if you take your time. We make
sure the bond is established first with the
horse and that they understand we are the
leader and protector.
On to the issues with him:
A. abused-we are trying to gain his trust and
show him we are not going to beat, harm or
neglect him in anyway. He is coming around
and trusts us on the ground, but not when it
comes to mounting. I was able to mount and
ride him just fine on the day I picked him up
(Saturday). I was also able to mount him in
our barn and sit on him with no issues
(Sunday night). Monday I took him over to the
indoor while we roped and he was eager to
haze, but would not let you mount. He dances
around, and backs up violently. This all
stems from the high school girl and the
trainer obviously abusing him (for 3 months).
I know this because he was not like this
according to the owners before he left for
the 3 month lease. So the problem I am facing
is this is all fresh in his mind still and he
thinks we are going to do they same thing
they did. Last night (Tuesday) he finally let
us get 1 leg up while his head was disengaged
but upon trying to step down he went into a
violent buck, with his head still disengaged.
I was quick enough to get down before he
tossed me but when my wife tried she hit the
ground. We have giving Dusty (the horse) one
on one time and worked with him together. I
can see in his eyes the one on one he prefers
and does not feel that much pressure versus
two of us. So we are going to continue the
one on one. I also realize 3 days is not
enough time to fully gain his trust and
respect, but he sees and understands us as
his leader. His join up is excellent, he will
lunge and listen perfectly. I am going to go
back to the round pen with him and see if
that makes a difference but the Ex-owners
said it won't. I really do not want to hobble
a 9 year old horse that already has trust
issues if you know what I mean. We have done
everything we have known to do in the past
that has worked, but looking for other ideas.
One more thing it is funny because he will
let you mount the right side but not the
left. I have no problem mounting from that
side to confuse him for a while but would
really like to mount the left. I have
disengaged the head fully to the withers both
climbing up and down but he still seems to
have enough power to get us off. I am going
to give him more time obviously and maybe
even revisit foundation training steps and
rebuild if I have to. This horse has a
tremendous handle once you get on him (roll
backs, slides, side pass etc.) Any ideas will
help.
It also just dawned on me this has been a tie
down horse almost all his life. And I should
try to mount and dismount the right side. I
will try that tonight but any other ideas I
can use.
ANSWER: Well, not sure what
caused this, but it does not really matter,
he cannot do this and has to be shown that
doing this gets him work and movement.
On the hobble issues, all horses should be
hobble trained and it is never too old to do
it, if you do it right and set the horse up
for success. I have a hobble page
and I would this anyway, not to deal with
blow up issue.
As for this behavior when mounting, I would
be a little more aggressive on this issue.
If he respects a lead rope and
someone on the ground, one thing would be
have someone on ground hold him and have
someone mount and dismount while he knows he
is being handled and held by person on
ground. Do this in round pen or
with long rope secured in case he breaks
free.
Get a nightlatch/bucking strap (on my
horsemanship page) put on your saddle to help
stay in the saddle.
Another thing is make sure he ties well and
tie him and get on and off him bare back no
saddle and don't stay on long, get on and
slide off, lots of release for not moving,
tie him short about a foot of rope so he
can't move too much. After some
bareback mounts and dismounts, put the saddle
on and do the same thing, set the horse up so
he knows what to expect, after a few of
success with this, put him in round pen and
do the same thing, mount and dismounts, no
riding, then start slow.
If you can't get his head around to stop
bucking you might try a war-bridle to help
with leverage, but be careful this can hurt
if you are hard, so just use it for
leverage.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thanks for all the advice but the
only thing I have not tried is the bucking
strap, and the war bridle.
On the aggressive mounting I tried numerous
times to flex him and just mount, but that
scares him even more. You have to be slow for
him even to consider letting you up on the
left side. He is the type that he must trust
you completely. I have tried the bareback
already sorry for not sharing this, and get
the same result as well as tieing him. He
gets so nervous he breaks the clip off the
lead rope.
I am going to try the right side tonight and
see what happens. If you think about it which
I did not (after 2 years of calf roping) he
is a finished calf roping horse and 95% of
the time you dismount to tie the calf on the
right side of the horse if you are right
handed and also mount back on that side. I am
not saying this is the answer but the trainer
in PA said the high school girl brought the
horse to him because she could not mount the
horse. And he described his training to me
and it's sounds rough, not natural
horsemanship by any means. He is old school
and sounds like he beats them.
Once I am able to mount the left side if ever
I do plan on doing the old pressure, release
trick. To many people around him scares him
even worse, he is a one on one horse, but my
wife has tried to hold him while I mount and
we get the same result. He does respect a
lead and person on the ground but as soon as
you go to the left side (past his shoulder)
of him that all changes. I plan on playing
the old pressure release game with him as
well regarding approaching the left side. I
will approach him on the left and keep
approaching him until he stops moving and go
one step at a time. He knows what we are
doing and knows what to expect when we
approach that side. We have tried just
lifting the stirup, touching his belly etc.
when he does let us approach from the left to
let him know we are not just approaching from
that side to mount.
Once you are and walk off with him he is fine
and has one of the best handles I have ever
witnessed. He is very light and if you can
ride, you do not even need to cue him (rein,
foot etc.) He will totally move off your body
position in the saddle. If you sit back hard
and continue to do so he will move into the
trot, lope etc. If you look and lean (or
shift your weight) to the right he goes
right.
I did work him hard last night after he
tossed me on the lunge line, and even
attempted to get back up after but got the
same result.
ANSWER: He is your horse so it is up to you
on what you want to accept. He
may not like the left side, but bucking,
throwing and doing dangerous behavior is not
acceptable to me. However, if he
is gold everywhere else, what is wrong with
m